What is the Gospel?

[Overaged]

I agree with what you say. This is really about making a daily choice to live in the presence of Jesus; to be like Mary sitting at His feet. That has to be at the root of this whole discussion! How can we continue to cherish sin if we daily choose to live in His presence? Doesn't that cause us to see sin in its true character?

Well, Judas lived in His presence and sinned constantly - infact so did all the other disciples. This is because there is a difference between behavior and character

[John317]

Quote:

Overaged:

Saying we have no sin, is obviously wrong; yet, we depend on "not sinning" to qualify for salvation? That's really odd math by anyone's standards.

Ceasing from sin does not automatically denote character. It would be a result of character; but this is not what forms it. What a false gospel; to sit around in your miracle chair at some church and think you are saved because you behaved.

What is this saying:

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

And this:

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All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life. The Lord declares, by the prophet Isaiah: "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isaiah 43:25. Said Jesus: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." "Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." Revelation 3:5; Matthew 10:32, 33.

Those who would share the benefits of the Saviour's mediation should permit nothing to interfere with their duty to perfect holiness in the fear of God. The precious hours, instead of being given to pleasure, to display, or to gain seeking, should be devoted to an earnest, prayerful study of the word of truth. The subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position and work of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs them to fill. Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God. Each must meet the great Judge face to face. How important, then, that every mind contemplate often the solemn scene when the judgment shall sit and the books shall be opened, when, with Daniel, every individual must stand in his lot, at the end of the days.

All who have received the light upon these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ's work in behalf of men. It concerns every soul living upon the earth. It opens to view the plan of redemption, bringing us down to the very close of time and revealing the triumphant issue of the contest between righteousness and sin. It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects and be able to give an answer to everyone that asketh them a reason of the hope that is in them.

The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven. We must by faith enter within the veil, "whither the forerunner is for us entered." Hebrews 6:20. There the light from the cross of Calvary is reflected. There we may gain a clearer insight into the mysteries of redemption. The salvation of man is accomplished at an infinite expense to heaven; the sacrifice made is equal to the broadest demands of the broken law of God. Jesus has opened the way to the Father's throne, and through His mediation the sincere desire of all who come to Him in faith may be presented before God.

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13. If those who hide and excuse their faults could see how Satan exults over them, how he taunts Christ and holy angels with their course, they would make haste to confess their sins and to put them away. Through defects in the character, Satan works to gain control of the whole mind, and he knows that if these defects are cherished, he will succeed. Therefore he is constantly seeking to deceive the followers of Christ with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible for them to overcome. But Jesus pleads in their behalf His wounded hands, His bruised body; and He declares to all who would follow Him: "My grace is sufficient for thee." 2 Corinthians 12:9. "Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light." Matthew 11:29, 30. Let none, then, regard their defects as incurable. God will give faith and grace to overcome them.

We are now living in the great day of atonement. In the typical service, while the high priest was making the atonement for Israel, all were required to afflict their souls by repentance of sin and humiliation before the Lord, lest they be cut off from among the people. In like manner, all who would have their names retained in the book of life should now, in the few remaining days of their probation, afflict their souls before God by sorrow for sin and true repentance. There must be deep, faithful searching of heart. The light, frivolous spirit indulged by so many professed Christians must be put away. There is earnest warfare before all who would subdue the evil tendencies that strive for the mastery. The work of preparation is an individual work. We are not saved in groups. The purity and devotion of one will not offset the want of these qualities in another. Though all nations are to pass in judgment before God, yet He will examine the case of each individual with as close and searching scrutiny as if there were not another being upon the earth. Everyone must be tested and found without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.

Solemn are the scenes connected with the closing work of the atonement. Momentous are the interests involved therein. The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For many years this work has been in progress. Soon--none know how soon--it will pass to the cases of the living. In the awful presence of God our lives are to come up in review. At this time above all others it behooves every soul to heed the Saviour's admonition: "Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is." Mark 13:33. "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Revelation 3:3.

When the work of the investigative judgment closes, the destiny of all will have been decided for life or death. Probation is ended a short time before the appearing of the Lord in the clouds of heaven. Christ in the Revelation, looking forward to that time, declares: "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:11, 12.

The righteous and the wicked will still be living upon the earth in their mortal state--men will be planting and building, eating and drinking, all unconscious that the final, irrevocable decision has been pronounced in the sanctuary above. Before the Flood, after Noah entered the ark, God shut him in and shut the ungodly out; but for seven days the people, knowing not that their doom was fixed, continued their careless, pleasure-loving life and mocked the warnings of impending judgment. "So," says the Saviour, "shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:39. Silently, unnoticed as the midnight thief, will come the decisive hour which marks the fixing of every man's destiny, the final withdrawal of mercy's offer to guilty men.

GC 488-491

Do you believe this?

I certainly do, and I pray that the whole Seventh-day Adventist church believes it and put its into practice so that Christ can come. The reason Christ waits is that His church is not ready for Him to come. If He were to come now, how many would be prepared? He loves us and that is really why Jesus waits.

[John317]

Quote:

Overaged: Saying we have no sin, is obviously wrong; yet, we depend on "not sinning" to qualify for salvation? That's really odd math by anyone's standards.

Ceasing from sin does not automatically denote character. It would be a result of character; but this is not what forms it. What a false gospel; to sit around in your miracle chair at some church and think you are saved because you behaved.

Who said anything about sitting around in a miracle chair at some church and thinking you are saved because you behaved?

Your words here show that you have no idea of what I'm saying. I'll let the apostle Peter do the talking:

2 Peter 1:1-11

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: [2] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, [3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: [4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so[in this way] an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[mrsducky]

Originally Posted By: mrsducky

I agree with what you say. This is really about making a daily choice to live in the presence of Jesus; to be like Mary sitting at His feet. That has to be at the root of this whole discussion! How can we continue to cherish sin if we daily choose to live in His presence? Doesn't that cause us to see sin in its true character?

Well, Judas lived in His presence and sinned constantly - infact so did all the other disciples. This is because there is a difference between behavior and character

Perhaps I was not very clear. You are right when you point to Judas as living in Jesus' presence. But what I had in mind is a conscious choice to live in His presence by seeking to know Him better each day. It is about forming a "forever friendship" with Jesus. It is about desiring to be like Jesus and to allow Him to take charge of my life and change me into His likeness. It has to do with surrendering my will to His will for me. I believe that is what Paul meant when he said that he died daily. Judas certainly had his own agenda with regard to Jesus and it had little to do with Jesus' will. It was his desire to secure a high government position for himself as a reward for helping Jesus become King. That is a completely different and negative concept. Peter also lived in Jesus' presence daily and instead of killing himself for denying his Lord, he wept bitterly for his sin. He was transformed by his relationship with Jesus.

[Robert]

Victory over sin does not mean or imply being perfect in oneself.

So if I have total vitory over all sin I'm not perfect (besides having the sin nature)?

[John317]

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pnattmbtc: Victory over sin does not mean or imply being perfect in oneself.

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Robert: So if I have total vitory over all sin I'm not perfect (besides having the sin nature)?

God gives us the power to overcome those sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of. As overcome one sin in our life, the Holy Spirit convicts us of other sins and character defects. But the point is to follow the Spirit where He leads us and teaches us.

It's in that sense that we are not perfect in ourselves. That's why the Bible says we should never say "I have no sin," because we will always have some area in our life and in our character that needs improving. Even in heaven, the saved will continue to grow spiritually and in their knoweldge of God.

[Robert]

That's why the Bible says we should never say "I have no sin," because we will always have some area in our life and in our character that needs improving. Even in heaven, the saved will continue to grow spiritually and in their knoweldge of God.

Pure heresy....What legalism!!!! No sin will be in heaven, period.

John you've lost it....All you guys and your character heresy is nothing short of legalism. Glory for me...it's the flesh acting holy to appease your angry god.

As to character perfection, I don't think that the theif of the cross had time to develop a character fit for heaven. According your own heresies this means he will take his sinful character to heaven.....The garbage that is being taught here, wow?

Run people...run from these modern day Judaizers....As Jesus said, "Woe to you, teachers of the law [legalists] and Pharisees, you hypocrites [they put on a good holy joe show]! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."

Rob

[John317]

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Robert: As to character perfection, I don't think that the theif of the cross had time to develop a character fit for heaven. According your own heresies this means he will take his sinful character to heaven.....The garbage that is being taught here, wow?

It's apparent to me don't have the slightest idea of what I'm saying.

Don't you realize that people are judged according to their opportunities and their knowledge of truth? The thief on the cross didin't have long years to allow God to change him, and God takes that into account. Does that mean we should say, "Oh well, since the thief didn't have to do such-and-such, I shouldn't be expected to do it either"?

Study the following:

2 Peter 1:1-11

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: [2] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, [3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: [4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so[in this way] an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

And this:

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[Robert]

Don't you realize that people are judged according to their opportunities and their knowledge of truth? The thief on the cross didin't have long years to allow God to change him, and God takes that into account. Does that mean we should say, "Oh well, since the thief didn't have to do such-and-such, I shouldn't be expected to do it either"?

Oh the lengths your nature will go to bring glory to itself! John, this BS. This is nothing but legalism reinvented....

[SivartM]

You seem very sure of your self and your ability to judge everyone's motives.

I'm glad that nothing you say is BS.

[pnattmbtc]

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Instead of the accusation of "selected words" as opposed to "all words," it needs to be recognized that Woody was not speaking to the issue of why we wouldn't be happy in heaven; he was actually replying to a different point.

I don't think this is accurate. First of all, I didn't intend "selected words" as opposed to "all words" to be taken as an accusation. I suppose I should have written out what I wrote in more detail to be more clear.

What happened is I responded to the Jesus is our representative post by re-emphasizing the importance of our characters viz a viz being happy in heaven, and cited again the GC statement.

Woody responded to this statement by saying he would stick with the prophet. But I had just quoted the prophet! So it appears like perhaps he's not really sticking with the prophet, but sticking with part of the prophet, if he's completely ignoring one statement of the prophet and not addressing the other. My question in regards to "selected words" was to bring to his attention that what I quoted was also words of the prophet. Again, I didn't mean for it to be taken as an accusation, and am sorry if it came across that way.

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your comments therein are out of context and don't really accomplish what they otherwise could have.

I disagree. It was my comments about the importance of our characters viz a viz being happy in heaven which triggers Robert's and Woody's comments, so this was the context.

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Jesus does in fact represent even those who choose not to go to heaven, by their life and actions for he is their Judge too.

My point is that it doesn't do any good for Jesus to be our representative if we have developed characters such that heaven would be misery for us.

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The gospel I am reading here is disappointing - it contains only behavior oriented "saving," and practice perfect Christianity; and not a word about the second coming. This is a central part of the gospel, and no one wants to talk about it here, and how it fits into this equation.

The gospel involves God's character. It was the accusations against God's character which triggered the Great Controversy. The Great Controversy involves the Second Coming, and everything else that happens. Basically God is trying to bring sin to an end as quickly as possible, and has been doing so since sin began. The reason it is taking such a long time is that to cleanse the universe from sin involves the following:

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Every question of truth and error in the long-standing controversy has now been made plain. The results of rebellion, the fruits of setting aside the divine statutes, have been laid open to the view of all created intelligences. The working out of Satan's rule in contrast with the government of God has been presented to the whole universe. Satan's own works have condemned him. God's wisdom, His justice, and His goodness stand fully vindicated. It is seen that all His dealings in the great controversy have been conducted with respect to the eternal good of His people and the good of all the worlds that He has created. "All Thy works shall praise Thee, O Lord; and Thy saints shall bless Thee." Psalm 145:10.

The history of sin will stand to all eternity as a witness that with the existence of God's law is bound up the happiness of all the beings He has created. With all the facts of the great controversy in view, the whole universe, both loyal and rebellious, with one accord declare: "Just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints." (GC 670.3)

Getting to this point involves the work of the 144,000.

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It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth....

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.(COL 415)

[pnattmbtc]

Character development is NOT what we do; it is who we are. What we do or don't do (as in sinning or not sinning) is a result of our character, not the formation of it. The only context that character is within the gospel message is in proving God as Just and the Justifier; it does not save us. Jesus does. (see John 1:29) The true gospel is simply that God is "Just, and the Justifier" for them who believe in Jesus. This is what Satan has contested from the beginning and will continue till the very end - which is the second coming.

[pnattmbtc]

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p:I'm hearing you say that victory over sin either isn't necessary or possible....

R:IF it is necessary to become perfect then Christ died in vain....If you are perfect you don't need a Savior.

p:Victory over sin does not mean or imply being perfect in oneself.

R:So if I have total vitory over all sin I'm not perfect (besides having the sin nature)?

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. That is, you seem to be switching what I'm trying to say to some other topic.

Here's what I'm saying. In order to be happy in heaven, we need to love God and His principles. Otherwise we would be in misery in heaven. Our character does not change at death or resurrection. Therefore we need to have characters now such that were we transported to heaven, it would be joy for us rather than misery.

Do you disagree with any of this?

[Overaged]

quote]Instead of the accusation of "selected words" as opposed to "all words," it needs to be recognized that Woody was not speaking to the issue of why we wouldn't be happy in heaven; he was actually replying to a different point./quote]

I don't think this is accurate. First of all, I didn't intend "selected words" as opposed to "all words" to be taken as an accusation. I suppose I should have written out what I wrote in more detail to be more clear.

What happened is I responded to the Jesus is our representative post by re-emphasizing the importance of our characters viz a viz being happy in heaven, and cited again the GC statement.

Woody responded to this statement by saying he would stick with the prophet. But I had just quoted the prophet! So it appears like perhaps he's not really sticking with the prophet, but sticking with part of the prophet, if he's completely ignoring one statement of the prophet and not addressing the other.

[Robert]

Our character does not change at death or resurrection.

At the resurrection we receive a glorified humanity indwelt with agape. All things will be new.

[John317]

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John317:Don't you realize that people are judged according to their opportunities and their knowledge of truth? The thief on the cross didin't have long years to allow God to change him, and God takes that into account. Does that mean we should say, "Oh well, since the thief didn't have to do such-and-such, I shouldn't be expected to do it either"?

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ROBERT: Oh the lengths your nature will go to bring glory to itself! John, this BS. This is nothing but legalism reinvented....

Why don't you explain in plain English what it is I've said that you believe is not true?

I don't see why you think I'm trying to bring glory to myself. Is using God's Spirit to do good and to resist and overcome sin a bad thing in your mind? Would it be better to go live as we did before we knew Christ? What are you saying, Rob? Please explain.

[John317]

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pnattmbtc: Our character does not change at death or resurrection.

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Robert: At the resurrection we receive a glorified humanity indwelt with agape. All things will be new.

If you're waiting for God to give you a new character at the Second coming or the resurrection, you'll be waiting in vain. It won't happen. If God were going to do that, He could make everythone a new character. But character is based on our choices and our life experiences. God can't make that happen. It results from our choices, and God won't make choices for us.

The righteous will receive new bodies and new brains, but not new characters or personalities. We make our characters by God's help now. That's the reason God gives us this probationary time that we have right now. We need to take advantage of it. Christ taught this truth in many of his parables.

[John317]

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John317: That's why the Bible says we should never say "I have no sin," because we will always have some area in our life and in our character that needs improving. Even in heaven, the saved will continue to grow spiritually and in their knoweldge of God.

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Robert: Pure heresy....What legalism!!!! No sin will be in heaven, period.

John you've lost it....

If you look at what I said here, Robert, you will see that I never suggested that there will be sin in heaven. No way! But even the sinless angels and unfallen humans can improve and learn and become more like God.

Eternity with God and Christ will be an opportunity for endless progress and learning, all under the tutelage of the greatest Teacher who ever existed.

Can you imagine Issac Newton, one of the world's most brilliant scientists, watching Christ make planets and asking Him questions about the laws of physics and the way the universe works? Well, he can do that if he wants. And you, too, will be able to ask Christ all kinds of questions, maybe about salvation and the relationship between law and gospel. I hope you have an open mind to learn from our Teacher. I do. I will welcome all His lessons. I know He will probably have to sit me down and tell me I made some huge theological mistakes. But the only thing that will matter at that point is if we're willing to learn and not stubborn and don't tell Him He is teaching legalism.

[John317]

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Overaged: Your character development gospel is one that enslaves people to the miserable prospect of never being good enough - you denote a people headed for the experience of making bricks without straw; because they can never attain unto all the "character develoment" stuff you espouse.

"Obedience" is not the same thing as character development. You seem to equate the two and that is wrong. It is the result of. As soon as we master one sin - another one pops up. Just like the weeds one can find and pull out of their garden. When will it end? Is that the "gospel?" The gospel is supposed to atleast be good news.

Sure, you are right that character comes as a result of choices to obey God and do right. Character is also shown under difficulties and trials. For instance, will we choose to die rather than disobey God, like Christ did and like the last generation of believers will be required to do? We won't if we're happy sinning now or think it's "no big deal." Or if we let Satan use us to discourage people from resisting and overcoming sin.

As far as good news goes-- I found it good news that God was able to help me resist and overcome homosexuality (a work in progress). I found it good news that God is able to help me love people instead of hate them as I used to. I found it good news that God gave me complete freedom from addiction to pornography and the desire for alcohol. I found it good news that God has helped me love doing God's will instead of serving Satan and trying to fulfill my own sinful desires. These required a combination of God's grace and human decisions and effort. God doesn't force us to give up our sinful life. It requires choices to be made every day, a denial of self and picking up our crosses and carrying them along with Him (Matt. 10: 38).

Did you know that one of the main ways we can have confidence in Christ and know that He is in our lives is by looking back over our past and seeing how He's been leading us and teaching us? That's one of the main messages of First John. That's where the confidence of the believers is: Christ in us, the hope of glory. Nobody-- not even the devil-- can rob us of that evidence and assurance.

The problem is when people look into their own lives and can't see any evidence that Christ or the Spirit are REAL.

Question:

Do you believe Ellen White was a true prophet of God?

[pnattmbtc]

You have tried to reword it, but it still comes across as an accusation;

[pnattmbtc]

p:Our character does not change at death or resurrection.

R:At the resurrection we receive a glorified humanity indwelt with agape. All things will be new.

Agape does not indwell the flesh, but the mind. The flesh is what changes at the resurrection, not the mind. We need the mind of Christ now.

[pnattmbtc]

The righteous will receive new bodies and new brains, but not new characters or personalities. We make our characters by God's help now. That's the reason God gives us this probationary time that we have right now. We need to take advantage of it. Christ taught this truth in many of his parables.

Which parables are you thinking of?

[Overaged]

Did you know that one of the main ways we can have confidence in Christ and know that He is in our lives is by looking back over our past and seeing how He's been leading us and teaching us? That's one of the main messages of First John. That's where the confidence of the believers is: Christ in us, the hope of glory. Nobody-- not even the devil-- can rob us of that evidence and assurance.

The problem is when people look into their own lives and can't see any evidence that Christ or the Spirit are REAL.

Question:

Do you believe Ellen White was a true prophet of God?

[Overaged]

quote]

I've written a number of detailed posts regarding what I believe the Gospel is, including one just yesterday, I think (if not yesterday, no later than the day before). You must have read the post, unless you skipped over it, because you've been commenting for at least several days. So I don't understand your comment here.

Please read what I wrote, and respond to what I've actually said.

[Overaged]

I think this part isn't going far enough:

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The true gospel is simply that God is "Just, and the Justifier" for them who believe in Jesus. This is what Satan has contested from the beginning and will continue till the very end - which is the second coming.

That is, this is just a small snippet of what Satan has contested. Satan has been contesting God's character and principles.

Umm; I already said that when I said "the true gospel is that God is just; and the Justifier;" just how does that not "go far enough?"