Everyone will speak Spanish in heaven???

[bonnie]

In Mexico suspects are assumed guilty until proven innocent. Praise God the US is not like Mexico.

[bonnie]

I do not agree with Shane. First of all, if one emigrates to other country onw should expect to speak the language of that country, On may not expect others to cater to the immigrants. This nation is composed of many, many different nationalities and language, this is the exact reason why we have to speak one official language to get along well. If one emigrates to this country one should be willing to assimilate to this society, if not, why did one come to this country? to colonize this country to one's liking?

When I came to this country there was no such a thing as "bilingual education". Granted, I do not speak or write perfect English(American) but I get along well in this society. If I can do it so as others.

If one does not have intention of learning the landuage and custom of the new country one should home!

Won

Would you be surprised to learn you might be considered prejudice?

[Dr. Shane]

If I could not speak spanish in Mexico I am not guilty of any crime so there is no assumption of anything,other than I can't speak spanish.

[bonnie]

Wrong. The police pull you over because you look like you have money. They tell you to give them $100. You say no. They pull out their pistol and remove you from your car. Then they produce a bag of cocaine they "found" under your seat. You go to jail. You are assumed guilty. You must go in front of a judge and prove your innocence. You can't speak Spanish? Oh sorry, no translator for you. You're in Mexico.

[whbae]

I really do not care if some one thinks I am prejudiced. I am speaking out froom my own experience which most of you do not have. I guess your view comes from extremely far left. Possibley, US did not legally establish English as the official language as there has been no need for it. I do know the constitution regarding English being or not being the official lanuage, but it is implied official language.

I married a Norwegian moman. Once we went to visit my Korean friends. They all spoke Korean to me in front of my wife. Soon, she asked to go home crying. She felt all these people were talking about her.

To the contrast, we went to a parting with all the Norwegians. As soon as I walked into the room every one changed their conversation from Norwegian to English even though I did not directly visiting with them.

Those Norwegians do not demand their language neither Koreans in this country!

Am I prejudiced!?

Won

[Dr. Shane]

none of my family have had trouble while vacationing in Mexico.

[Dr. Shane]

I guess your view comes from extremely far left.

[bonnie]

If they went to tourist places there are actually tourist police to protect them from the regular Mexican police. I don't think Mexico is that great. I certainly would never say that the US should be more like Mexico. Heaven forbid!

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I certainly would never say that the US should be more like Mexico.

Wasn't aware anyone said it should be

[bonnie]

Oh yes! Some cold-hearted people actually say that because immigrants moving to Mexico must learn Spanish, then immigrants moving to the US must learn English.

[jasd]

>>1. Corporate America should not have to do the government's job of securing the border.<<

I believe I forwarded the idea of “Corporate America” – securing the personnel office. However, that said,

I think that the time to secure first, the Southern Border, followed shortly thereafter the Northern Border – has arrived – what with the escalating infiltration across those borders – of a new wave of dangerous and undesirable elements.

I haveno brief accepting the services of any and all – willing to aid in securing the borders – including the Minutemen Militia, Concerned Citizen - John Doe, the NAACP, the posse comitatus of a Border Zone, Corporate America – or other. :-)

>>It is unfair to require employers to verify a worker's legal status.<<

Why? It is law. And, we have businesses large and small already doing such as withholding... etc.

>>If the government was securing the border, there wouldn't be enough illegals here to worry about.<<

We have now, etant in this country, some 20,000,000 - plus or minus.

>>Social Security should issue a national ID with a magnetic strip. Before hiring an employee, the employer should be able to swipe the ID and allow the government to verify the worker is legal.<<

Ahh, voilà!—the crux of the matter – a Natl ID marker/MARK. Create the problem, then fix it. Awfully progressive, yes?

>>2. First generation immigrants are, for the most part, impoverished. Second generation immigrants tend to earn as much as an average America.<<

Those living in subsidized housing range the gamut. Whilst I still lived and worked in Los Angeles, there was featured an article in the LA Times of a ‘roundup’ of illegal workers in the City. Upshot of the feature was – that newly-arrived illegals – were earning as much gross dollar$ as middle America...

My live-in and I paid our Spanish-speaking only Hispanic maid $50 per hour – for a just over an hour’s cleaning several times a week. That was her standard fee – and when we recommended additional clients for her – she declined and went back to working in the garment district of LA – saying that she made more money there.

The assertion you made is one that is a yes/no.

>>3. Assimilation should not be a requirement in a free nation.<<

I did not suggest that it ought to be a requirement. It is suggested that it is not good for the Nation to have, basically, a ‘fifth’ element inhabiting its body.

>>As long as they do not violate the law,<<

Almost the entirety of my brief – is with the illegals – who, prima facie, are law violators.

[jasd]

>>Nearly all second generation immigrants assimilate without any requirements to do so.<<

Let us hope that “nearly all” is indeed – factual. That said, have you been to Los Angeles?—and, have you visited Este Los Angeles? It is Mexico City Norte, for cryin’ out loud! even the High Schools are second and third generation Spanish-speaking... with Spanish being spoken by many of the teachers in their classrooms.

So, why are there so many Mexican flags in their ‘hoods, on their rides, their stores, at their political rallies, etc? I’ve been throughout 26 States and have never witnessed such a phenomenon elsewhere – than in the Spanish-speaking enclaves or ghettoes.

>>4. Immigrants do not "game the system" any more than any other group of Americans do.<<

Gaming the system – a for instance: Most of the homes in San Fernando Valley required two working parents to service the home mortgage, etc. The chicanos, cholos, chucos, etc – from Este Los Angeles knew that those homes would be empty all day. To ‘do their number’ – they would first send a replacement Driver License and/or other ID to the Tijuana Post Office, General Delivery as surety – catch the Metro to San Fernando Valley and ‘boost’ (rob) houses all da livelong day. When/if caught,

they claimed illegal status and were transported to Tijuana courtesy of the LAPD police bus; whereupon, they spent a few days partying – before picking up their IDs at the Tijauna Post Office – head for an easy border crossing – and back to Este Los Angeles.

>>Welfare fraud is an issue but not limited to immigrants.<<

Indeed not!—however, the Hispanic’s use of multiple surnames and the recognition that theirs were [generally] large families – permit them greater ease in committing fraud; that is, less withholding taxes or recouping them as tax returns. There is, additionally, the Earned Income Tax Credit...

Etc.

>>5. There is no official language in the US nor should there be. It is a free country.<<

The issue turns upon “official” and de facto and de jure. Why do you use English when attending to anything at law? And why is there an argument posited re “translators” – should there be no structure obtaining to the application or use of official language in America?

>>People can use any language they want.<<

That is the existential gripe!—where it relates to assimilation.

>>If their population is large enough, their elected leaders may decide to print government documents to accommodate them.<<

PC at its asinine best/worst!? If a person does not care enough to learn the language – I have little sympathy for him or her when it comes to Govt documents such as voting forms – and definitely!—do not want him or her voting – in a manner that may cancel my vote. If, however, should the immigrant or the one who, obstinately, will not learn the language is too impoverished to hire a lawyer or take the bus to any of the number of legal clinics that specialize in pro bono work – then!, let’s talk about using my nickle or my dime – to assure a square deal.

>>At one time the US government printed many documents in German to accommodate German immigrants. 6% of the nation's elementary schools were once taught in German. That was the result of freedom and democracy.<<

That is what WASP was all about. Our largest minority group was, until very recently, Germanic. Moreover, it, moreso, than either Greek or Latin, was the required second language taught in our schools at the time.

...qualifying the above sentiments with the fact: that – the most regrettable error I ever committed – was not marrying that muy Senorita from Guadalajara. Mexicans are great peoples. That said, the issue centers primarily upon – the illegality that proves detrimental and that lends itself to the political machinations, which promise great harm to the two-party system and following – to our country

[John317]

Really? Maybe the last year or two but none of my family have had trouble while vacationing in Mexico. Didn't speak spanish and none was pulled over because of the way we looked.

Two of my sons have vacationed there.

My son and his wife do not look Mexican,had a wonderful time.

My other son and his mexican wife had a great time as well. My two bi-racial grandchildren also had a great time.

My cousin just returned a month ago. Had a perfect two weeks,

Yes, what you describe is common for Americans visiting Mexico, but there's also the experience that Shane describes. I live near the border and my wife and kids go back and forth often to visit aunts and uncles, etc. I've been stopped a number of times over the years by the police for a traffic violation. They typically ask you for money and it is best to give them something. They will usually ask how much you have. I gave him $15.00, which left me $7.00 in my wallet & $30.00 in my shoes and scattered through the car. Some of the cops are nice and ask you how far you have to travel, so when you give them money, the nicer ones will make sure you have enough to get home. You can't count on this but it does happen. I've been going across the border since I was 17. If they throw you in jail, you can literally lose the clothes on your back. In some of those jails, they don't feed you. The prisoners are fed by their family or by the church or else they grow their own food. You increase your chances of staying out of jail simply by giving the name of a policeman who's either a relative or neighbor.

[Renewed_faith]

I work in a factory of sorts that has a 90/10 split with the mexicans being the 90%. They speak their spanish language all day long. I truly expect that if they are living and working in America they should learn English. However, they don't. Some of them have been here for 10+ years never wanting to learn the language here. Then expect us to learn their language to be able to communicate with them. We did not move there, they moved here. Learn english I say. I may be wrong and I many may not like what I have to say but as stated before, this is only my opinion and one of which I am going to stick with. I see where they get the state help, they get dividends that we americans do not get. They are given money just because they moved here and have no way of anything. I have a friend that is Cuban and is learning the language fairly quickly as he knows that is what he wants to do so that he can contribute to society as something more than a spanish/cuban speaking immigrant. The only way to be something other than an immigrant is to learn the ways of the americans and thus they are no longer immigrants in my eyes. However, if they do not take the time and learn it, they are only and will only be IMMIGRANTS from another country. My friend was/is being given (get this) to LEARN the english language! He has only been here for just over a year and has already learned so much that you can barely tell he is from another country. I would love to be given money just to learn something that I should be learning anyway. He is given money to purchase a car and money for food even though he is single and working at the same place I am making the same amount of money I am. I am not able or even being given any money. When I have applied for state help for anything I am told I make too much money. It should be that what is good for one should also be good for another. You know the old antage "what is good for the goose is good for the gander". Why is it that the US gives so much to other nationalities and we americans have to work for every penny we get. Except for those on state help already who really need it. Why is so much more given to those from another country? Why are we giving so much money to other countries and fighting wars for someone else when our country is in such bad shape? We have people who live on the streets. We pay for people in other countries to have a place to live. Where is the fairness in that?

I like living in the USA but I do not appreciate the fact that my tax dollars are going out of the country fighting or helping those when we can't or don't help ourselves.

[Renewed_faith]

Quote:

You increase your chances of staying out of jail simply by giving the name of a policeman who's either a relative or neighbor.

That is something that you could do if you were part of the community that I just moved from. "The good 'ol buddy system in my eyes...

I'm signing off before I get booted off for my opinions.

Have a great night everyone and sweet dreams.

God bless

[bonnie]

Quote:

Yes, what you describe is common for Americans visiting Mexico, but there's also the experience that Shane describes. I live near the border and my wife and kids go back and forth often to visit aunts and uncles, etc. I've been stopped a number of times over the years by the police for a traffic violation. They typically ask you for money and it is best to give them something. They will usually ask how much you have. I gave him $15.00, which left me $7.00 in my wallet & $30.00 in my shoes and scattered through the car. Some of the cops are nice and ask you how far you have to travel, so when you give them money, the nicer ones will make sure you have enough to get home. You can't count on this but it does happen. I've been going across the border since I was 17. If they throw you in jail, you can literally lose the clothes on your back. In some of those jails, they don't feed you. The prisoners are fed by their family or by the church or else they grow their own food. You increase your chances of staying out of jail simply by giving the name of a policeman who's either a relative or neighbor.

I am sure what you say is true,especially now.

The fact remains that we cannot afford the many programs for immigrants,legal and illegal.Shane's solution is to simply raise property tax.To continue to provide for those that just refuse to help themselves to the many services available.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

You don't want to learn english so you can find a job?You don't want to assimilate?? Great,then we may not want to feed you as you are exercising your freedom to do nothing

The same spirit that carried out genocide against the American Indians. That was a dark period of our nation's history. May God forgive us and change our hearts to be more like Him.

That is a bunch of garbage. True freedom includes taking responsibility for your own choices. That means no free ride if one chooses not to do what is necessary to support themselves, when they are able to do so, and the resources to make it possible are there free for the asking. Nobody should have the right to sit on their duff and let the government support them when the only "handicap" they have toward supporting themselves can be easily remedied with free resources already provided by the government.

Nobody is saying they should give up their own customs and traditions, or even their own language, at home and with others who speak it. But if they want to live here and enjoy all the benefits of American society, they need to learn to communicate in the language that is in common use. If they settle in a place where their native language is in common use, and they can get everything they need and want without speaking English, then not learning English is not an issue. But if someone came to my small town speaking only Swahili, they would have no right to demand that every local business and governmental unit have a translator available for them, and everything printed in their language as well as English. Nor should they expect the government to support them indefinitely while they refuse to learn the language.

[bonnie]

carried out genocide against the American Indians. That was a dark period of our nation's history. May God forgive us and change our hearts to be more like Him.

[lazarus]

That is a bunch of garbage. True freedom includes taking responsibility for your own choices. That means no free ride if one chooses not to do what is necessary to support themselves, when they are able to do so, and the resources to make it possible are there free for the asking. Nobody should have the right to sit on their duff and let the government support them when the only "handicap" they have toward supporting themselves can be easily remedied with free resources already provided by the government.

The wealth of this country was built through the strength, blood and sweat of those who did not have a choice: slaves etc. Those who had slaves chose not to support themselves they chose to use others like animals to support their lifestyles. There was no personal responsibility there.

Generations of Americans "sat on their duff" and allowed millions of slaves to support them. It's laughable to hear this kind of talk when we can see how America was built. The US capitol and the White house was built using slave labor. How ironic is that!

Like Europe America will have to give back the wealth, strength and the talent it stole from Native Americans and the slaves. Native Americans and Slaves will not get back but the Asians, and Hispanics and Africans. This will not be through reparations but the slow relentless demographic shift that is taking place. Press 1 for English is the tip of the iceberg. What goes around comes around.

[Dr. Shane]

The wealth of this country was built through the strength, blood and sweat of those who did not have a choice: slaves etc.

That is not exactly correct. Most of this nation's wealth has been in the Northern and Western states where slavery was never allowed. I tend to think God blessed those states because they did not allow slavery.

That said, the wealth of the northern and western states was built by immigrants. The area where I live was arid, desert where very little would grow until German immigrants moved in and dug an irrigation system. Now we grow citrus and produce shipped out other parts of the country.

[Dr. Shane]

Nobody is saying they should give up their own customs and traditions, or even their own language, at home and with others who speak it.

[whbae]

True "Freedom " is not Scot free as some of the guys described. True freedom has "Catch" which come with, namely, Responsibility and Duty. One has to be responsible for what happened after your exercising your freedom. You should do your duty as a responsible mature person before you do your freedom. When lacking these two factors it is called "Indulgence". Too many of us confuse these two.

Won

[Dr. Shane]

Comparisons to any type of genocide is a offense to those that have gone thru "genocide"

The quote I was referring to was saying that immigrants need to learn English or we will not feed them.

So basically, learn English or we will starve you to death.

Hmmm, that sounds a tad bit like genocide.

Some others say we shouldn't let immigrants in our schools or treat them in our hospitals.

Indeed, that is the same spirit that gave small-pox infected blankets to Native Americans.

Them are some cold-hearted Americans.

[Dr. Shane]

>>It is unfair to require employers to verify a worker's legal status.<<

Why? It is law.

[Dr. Shane]

The fact remains that we cannot afford the many programs for immigrants,legal and illegal. Shane's solution is to simply raise property tax.

Actually, that is only one solution I offered. I was just exposing the lie that "we can't afford it". Of course we can. We don't deny people their civil rights because "we can't afford it."

A cheap way to do it is simply to hire someone to wear two hats. Hire a police dispatcher that can also work as a translator. No additional costs and no additional taxes. Denying someone their civil rights should not even be on the table as an option.