Everyone will speak Spanish in heaven???

[bonnie]

Actually, that is only one solution I offered. I was just exposing the lie that "we can't afford it". Of course we can. We don't deny people their civil rights because "we can't afford it."

[bonnie]

The quote I was referring to was saying that immigrants need to learn English or we will not feed them.

So basically, learn English or we will starve you to death.

Hmmm, that sounds a tad bit like genocide.

[John317]

I work in a factory of sorts that has a 90/10 split with the mexicans being the 90%. They speak their spanish language all day long.

It would be better if they couldn't speak Spanish to anyone but were forced to speak English. They would then no doubt learn to speak English much faster. But one of the problems with their learning the new language is that they can get along fine without it.

Actually I agree with your whole post here. But let me add a few things.

I see the situation from both sides. My great-great-grandfather on my dad's side came from Germany in the 1840s and my grandmother told me he absolutely refused to speak German. This was his new, adopted country, and he cut off all ties with the "old country." That is different from the Mexicans who come here.

For one thing, Mexico is right on our border, which means that they are still close to home and close to their families who live there. Most of them are in regular contact with their families down there. The European immigrants who came here usually cut off all ties with their families in the old country. Mexicans don't feel estranged from Mexico in that way. In fact, they're very much aware of the fact that this land-- from California to Colorado-- used to be Mexico.

Originally Posted By: =Renewed_faith

I truly expect that if they are living and working in America they should learn English. However, they don't. Some of them have been here for 10+ years never wanting to learn the language here.

I agree they should learn English. Many of them do learn it. One of my wife's nephew came here in the 1990s without knowing a word of English, but he now speaks perfect English and works as an operator for a telephone company.

I've had Mexican-American friends before who had been here for 50 years and still didn't know the language.

But it is not that they don't want to learn the language. There's no more to it than that.

English is a hard language for adults to learn, and not all people have the same abilities to learn another language. Some are more talented than others, and not all are motivated the same way, either. Some people learn it fairly easily, whereas others can struggle with it for years without making much headway. (I studied the teaching and tutoring of English composition in graduate school and have taught adults at both the university and at the local library.) I have relatives who've learned it in a matter of a few years, but I have others who have learned very little. One friend of ours has been here for almost 40 years now and has bilingual children, yet she knows very little English herself, although she is married to an American who knew little Spanish when they got married.

Originally Posted By: =Renewed_faith

Then expect us to learn their language to be able to communicate with them. We did not move there, they moved here. Learn english I say. I may be wrong and I many may not like what I have to say but as stated before, this is only my opinion and one of which I am going to stick with.

I agree with you here, although I think it's great to learn Spanish, too.

It's really to their benefit for them to learn English.

Originally Posted By: =Renewed_faith

I see where they get the state help, they get dividends that we americans do not get. They are given money just because they moved here and have no way of anything.

I can see why you say this. I've experienced some problems with this myself. My wife got free emergency medical help, and I was told that if the hospital knew she was married to me (a white American), she wouldn't get the help. Not because I had the money but simply because of being married to a white guy. This is what I was told directly by a white nurse who helped my wife apply for financial assistance.

Our kids can't get some help with their education because their father is a white American.

On the other hand, my eldest daughter has been discriminated against, and treated unfairly, because her mom is Mexican.

This unfair, outrageous treatment has been shown to her both at her work and by border patrol agents.

I'm shocked and angry at how racially prejudiced some people can be-- not because of people's behavior but simply because of race and color.

Originally Posted By: =Renewed_faith

I have a friend that is Cuban and is learning the language fairly quickly as he knows that is what he wants to do so that he can contribute to society as something more than a spanish/cuban speaking immigrant. The only way to be something other than an immigrant is to learn the ways of the americans and thus they are no longer immigrants in my eyes. However, if they do not take the time and learn it, they are only and will only be IMMIGRANTS from another country.

I completely agree with you on this.

Originally Posted By: =Renewed_faith

.... Why is it that the US gives so much to other nationalities and we americans have to work for every penny we get. Except for those on state help already who really need it. Why is so much more given to those from another country? Why are we giving so much money to other countries and fighting wars for someone else when our country is in such bad shape? We have people who live on the streets. We pay for people in other countries to have a place to live. Where is the fairness in that?

I like living in the USA but I do not appreciate the fact that my tax dollars are going out of the country fighting or helping those when we can't or don't help ourselves.

I feel the same as you do here. This definitely needs to be changed, but it is a poltical issue, and until whites are able to get together and compel the government to act, it won't do it.

I believe this is the secret: the wheel that squeaks gets the grease.

When was the last time you saw hundreds of thousands of whites angry enough to "squeak" loud enough for the government to sit up and take notice?

[bonnie]

Quote:

I believe this is the secret: the wheel that squeaks gets the grease.

When was the last time you saw hundreds of thousands of whites angry enough to "squeak" loud enough for the government to sit up and take notice?

It may be coming,I hope so.

On learning a language,My granddaughter who is half mexican went to school in Spain.From the moment she entered the college campus, English was not used.Her roommate,her classroom,her studies were all in spanish.No english allowed.

At the end of the school year she came home fluent in spanish

No translators,no special consideration

[John317]

...I'm signing off before I get booted off for my opinions....

I hope not. My opinion is that nobody should be booted off the Adventist Forum for their opinions. Whether someone is booted off should have only to do with how opinions are expressed-- and how we treat others--- not with the opinions themselves.

[John317]

On learning a language,My granddaughter who is half mexican went to school in Spain.From the moment she entered the college campus, English was not used.Her roommate,her classroom,her studies were all in spanish.No english allowed.

At the end of the school year she came home fluent in spanish

No translators,no special consideration

This is the best, most efficient way to learn a language. It is bascially how I did it: I lived in Mexico for a while where no one around me knew English. It's amazing how fast you can learn something when your survival depends on it.

My wife took a long time to learn English because I have too soft a heart. I translated for her too often, and still do.

[Renewed_faith]

wow! you picked apart my entire post and answered each point.

Honestly, I doubt I have ever except for issues of real no concern. Why is that?

I agree with you that the wheel that squeaks the loudest is the one who gets the grease. Maybe people should go to the white house and camp out on his front lawn until there is a change. Let him see with his eyes just how bad of shape our country is in. For some reason he feels we are actually coming out of this recession when in reality we are not. There are hundreds of towns who have less than 15,000 people in it who can not afford to live in anything other than a garage and on the streets. We passed out a flier at work about a month ago of a family who is living in a garage while working 40 hours a week at minimum wage and can not afford to get herself or her 2 children medical or even food or medicine. Why can congress not see what is happening to our country while our tax dollars are going out of the country leaving us in such very bad shape? I know they know it's out there but do they really believe it is getting better?

Does anyone really care enough to do or start to do something about this?

I believe that everyone should be treated equally as long as they are actively trying to better themselves and become part of the country they have decided to take on as their own country. I know there are just as many whites that take advantage of the government as there is any other nationality but for some reason, I just have a problem when they do not learn the language. I think the older I get the more I see that is wrong with the fact that people can not learn the language or even try to learn it.

There is one lady at work who has been here for 20 years. I first met her when she had moved here from Vietnam about 15 years ago. She hadn't learned much English. She and I tried to communicate. It was hard to do. However, one day she came up to me and asked that I help her learn English. How good I felt to know that she wanted to learn it so well. I quit that job before I was able to teach her very much of it but she was doing well. She has a son that speaks both languages. Since then I went back to work for this company about 2 years ago and was AMAZED at how much of the English language she has learned. We can actually hold a conversation with each other. She knows so many words that I never thought she would learn. Even if they don't learn it very quickly is not the point. The point is that when they have the chance to learn it then they learn English. When I go to another country I know that I do not know their language, but, I do take the time to at least learn enough of it for the time to get around. I try not to embarrass myself but I often , very often do when I am in another country... LOL

Sorry, I went off on my soapbox... I will get off it now

God bless

[Renewed_faith]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

On learning a language,My granddaughter who is half mexican went to school in Spain.From the moment she entered the college campus, English was not used.Her roommate,her classroom,her studies were all in spanish.No english allowed.

At the end of the school year she came home fluent in spanish

No translators,no special consideration

This is the best, most efficient way to learn a language. It is bascially how I did it: I lived in Mexico for a while where no one around me knew English. It's amazing how fast you can learn something when your survival depends on it.

AMEN!!

[John317]

wow! you picked apart my entire post and answered each point.

Yes, I hope it's OK. I like doing it that way because then it becomes more like a conversation, which is the way I try to exchange views with people. I know it seems to drive some people crazy, though, especially if I'm mostly disagreeing with them. lol But I do try to write to them just like I would talk to them if we were face to face.

[John317]

Good, encouraging post, Renewed. Way to go, helping that lady learn some English. And am glad she told you she wanted to learn.

[Renewed_faith]

It is ok

God bless

[Dr. Shane]

In order to provide a translator to those refusing to learn english there would have to be one for, hmong, muslims, Hindu, mexican and somali. That is something that would have to be paid for.

[bonnie]

There are interpreting services that can be employed for such languages. The city governments do not have to employ a full-time worker for each language. Depending on the state, many states will provide translators for the cities. We do not need to deny people their civil rights.

[Dr. Shane]

interpreting services need to be paid for.

[bonnie]

Of course they do. However they are much less expensive than full-time interpreters. I was simply exposing the error that a city would have to hire interpreters for every language. That simply is not accurate.

[Renewed_faith]

Quote:

If that means raising taxes, then we raise taxes. Starving people to death because they don't speak English is just not right. I am all about love. flower I am all about freedom. announce I just want to wrap my arms around people and tell them how much they are appreciated. hugfor2 I just can't see starving someone to death because they don't speak English.

But we let our own legal residents of America starve to death on our streets and in our homes because we give money to others who don't even learn our language? Nope, that's not right nor is it fair. Raising taxes for some would only mean kicking them to the streets and starving our own and basically killing them because they can not afford to keep their homes any longer or purchase food.

Can you see starving Americans just because they can not afford taxes or that they do not have a place to live? How about starving Americans just because they do not have children so they can not get the state help? How about all those living out on the streets with no family to help them? No government who will pay their bills or teach them how to get and retain a job? How about those who can not do anything about their position in life? How about those who's husbands or wives who have died and no longer can get the medical attention they so badly need? While we are helping and paying for people to interpret the English language because people do not want to learn it so they can prosper in our country?

God bless

[Dr. Shane]

They still need a interpreter available for a variety of languages.

[Dr. Shane]

we let our own legal residents of America starve to death on our streets and in our homes because we give money to others who don't even learn our language?

That is not happening. Put a fire to that strawman. Get rid of him. shew shew

[Dr. Shane]

We do need to protect civil rights. If that means raising taxes, then we raise taxes. Starving people to death because they don't speak English is just not right. I am all about love. I am all about freedom. I just want to wrap my arms around people and tell them how much they are appreciated. pals I just can't see starving someone to death because they don't speak English.

That is worth posting again. Civil rights are very important.

[Renewed_faith]

Yes, it IS happening and it is all over the states... Look at the people who are homeless... Have you ever volunteered at a place to help serve and feed some of the homeless and when you run out of food while there are children standing behind the last person you gave food to with nothing more to feed them with? If you had then maybe you would see what is truly happening in the USA. Until then, maybe you should open your eyes and actually look at the situation this country is really in. Take the blinders off.

[Outta Here]

Wow. When that happened to you, Renewed_faith, what did you do? Did you let them go hungry, or did you find a way--even if it meant digging into your own pockets--to feed those children?

[bonnie]

Yes, it IS happening and it is all over the states... Look at the people who are homeless... Have you ever volunteered at a place to help serve and feed some of the homeless and when you run out of food while there are children standing behind the last person you gave food to with nothing more to feed them with? If you had then maybe you would see what is truly happening in the USA. Until then, maybe you should open your eyes and actually look at the situation this country is really in. Take the blinders off.

It isn't a question of wearing blinders. It is a question of not exaggerating what someone else has said to put a whole different meaning to something. Some are very good at it.

The complete silliness of Cold-hearted conservatives want to stop this so they can pay less taxes. They would deny an immigrant civil rights so they could save 10 to 20 cents on their property taxes.

Most people that are being honest know we are not speaking of 10 0r 20cents. Our taxes have gone up over two thousand dollars in the last three years.There are those and Shane has admitted to being one of them that feels we should lose or home if necessary.All because some just say ,"No,I am not going to learn and you will take care of me"

This is called their civil rights.Your civil right are to say Yes,how much did you want.

Some think they are actually qualified to make claims about budgets they know nothing about.One thing they do know for a fact.Immigrants,legal or otherwise should have all they desire.If not given, those same people think they can step into God's shoes and determine the heart of another.It is not unusual to see name calling.

No one has ever claimed to want any to starve to death.Not sure why the need for exaggerations except repeated often enough some may be believed.

My dad used to explain certain people as "trying to out christian the next guy".Took a long time to figure out what he meant but over the last few years it has been pretty clear.

As for you being one of the cold hearted cnservatives it is helpful to remember,those that acuse this haven't the authority from God to determine the heart of another.

[SivartM]

I'm sure that immigrants everywhere are so touched at the fact that everyone on this thread knows exactly what immigrants need, want, and should get. If I was an immigrant I'm sure I'd want you in charge of the government, otherwise I'd have no idea whether or not I should or can learn English. Except I still don't because nobody has agreed yet as to what I should do, so I guess I'll just sit here.

[bonnie]

I'm sure that immigrants everywhere are so touched at the fact that everyone on this thread knows exactly what immigrants need, want, and should get. If I was an immigrant I'm sure I'd want you in charge of the government, otherwise I'd have no idea whether or not I should or can learn English. Except I still don't because nobody has agreed yet as to what I should do, so I guess I'll just sit here.

I don't think it takes rocket science to realize if you can't speak the language that is commonly spoken you are going to be handicapped in getting a job and becoming independent.

Tutoring in english is free and readily available.

If you are doubtful they need to learn english explain how they can become self sufficient?

Do I know exactly what another needs?NOPE

Generally I do know they all need food,shelter and emergency help at times.

Without learning english they will remain a financial burden.

I'd have no idea whether or not I should or can learn English. Except I still don't because nobody has agreed yet as to what I should do, so I guess I'll just sit here.

Your idea of just sitting there is what many seem to think.If you could not decide what you should do as to learning english,it is pretty clear no one can help you. If you are waiting for what others agree you should do,you life should be interesting

[Liz]

*General post*

People are hungry and homeless here in USA.

Hungry