Everyone will speak Spanish in heaven???

[Dr. Shane]

Do we think everyone - all of us immigrants, come to think of it - is going to speak English in Heaven? Is that the underlying assumption? I kinda doubt it...

Not only will we speak English in heaven. It will be American English - not the queen's English. So don't plan on going there if you are not American. Or repent of your accent.

[Dr. Shane]

Since the US is the fourth largest Spanish-speaking nation in the world... I think it is time.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Shane, the illegal immigrants get more benefits and money than I do as an American citizen. It pays to be Hispanic and have hordes of children, and be illegal aliens here in the US.

That is plainly and simply untrue. Demonstrably so. Facts shortly.

Bravus, I respect your opinion. But I know how much my income is and what benefits I have and do not have. The illegal immigrants make more money and receive more benefits than I get as an American citizen.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

I also have every right to bring facts and evidence that show that your opinion is based on ignorance and prejudice rather than reality.

It really pains me to disagree with you here, Bravus but I do think you are missing something there. I think people are afraid of immigrants mostly due to fear. They will not listen to reason because their fear will not let them. Every time they hear "press one for English" fear grips their heart.

The only fear I have of the immigrants are the gang violence they've brought to this neck of the woods.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[Bravus]

It pains me to disagree that we are disagreeing, Shane, but what is that fear based on if not ignorance and prejudice? People are in far more danger from citizens than immigrants, many studies have shown, so fear of immigrants is... what I said the first time.

[jasd]

>>Here on the border we have a lot of anchor babies born and their parents are not allowed to stay here. In fact, many of the mothers go back to Mexico within a week of the child's birth. Most are raised in Mexico and come here when they become adults. Some come over here and live with friends before they are adults so they can attend school. The parents stay in Mexico.

Well, that may be indeed fact 12 miles from the border, but – let me remind – there is a reason they are called

anchor babies.

>>I live 12 miles north of Mexico. We do not have one rental mail box delivery store in our small town.<<

Well, it is seems evident that you do not have a sister city directly across the border – such as Tijuana; otherwise, it ought prove financially remunerative should you provide mail drops...

>> Many Mexicans like to order stuff on the internet and have it delivered to a US mailbox. The shipping is more expensive if it is sent to Mexico and the Mexico post office is not very good.

Hmm, sounds reasonable and may be so today; however, when I last passed through San Ysidro – the Internet was not the going venture it’s since developed into.

Interestingly – more Chinese, in their native China, speak English – than there are English-speaking Americans)

What prompted them to learn English? It is doubtful that the People’s Party forced them...

Can we say individual ‘initiative’?-aww, gee shucks! Thazzzit?

[jasd]

Fear? Ignorance? Prejudice? Racism? [...] Oh wow! Kinda like the czarists politics of the present incumbents, eh?—that is, label’em, peel’em, and stick’em.

Oh wow! That’s like that sleepover game ain it?—‘We All Fall Down’...

Substance and facts?—awww, pishtosh!

[Bravus]

Um, you've brought anecdotes, but where are the substance and facts? Let's see 'em: actual, reputable research studies published by unbiased bodies, showing *any* net harm to the US from either illegal immigrants (the most recent tangent) or the use of languages other than English (since that's where we started).

I'm all about substance and facts: bring 'em on! All I'm hearing are anecdotal slanders, and yes, the prejudice that occurs when the actions of a few are imputed to their entire group.

[Renewed_faith]

Originally Posted By: Renewed_faith

Look at the people who are homeless...

I have. They are mostly alcoholics, drug addicts and mentally ill.

Originally Posted By: Renewed_faith

homeless... there are children standing behind the last person...

I have worked with the Salvation Army and never saw any children living on the streets. If we had ever seen that we would have called the county and gotten the kids into Foster Care.

Check out these sites if you believe there are no children without homes in America.

http://www.homelesschildrenamerica.org/

http://library.thinkquest.org/10374/html/facts.html

Here is a video from CBS of the homeless... CHILDREN in America

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5031907n

and another site

http://www.solutionsforamerica.org/thrivingneigh/homelessness.html

Now, you tell me again that there are no homeless children in America?

I believe maybe you need to start listening and reading the news. This was just a simple google search done with homeless children in the meta tag.

Here is just one more ...

http://cflhomeless.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/how-many-children-are-homeless-in-america/

and you say there are no homeless children out there and that if there are, it is drug addicts and mentally ill????

That my friend is stereotyping if I ever saw it.

[Renewed_faith]

This is an article I reviewed that is in the

coalition for the homeless of central Florida online.

Losing one’s home is pretty devastating to say the least, especially when one has children to feed, shelter and educate, etc. In today’s economic climate, this is happening more than ever, and families with children are the fastest growing segment of the homeless population. Especially for those parents who never dreamed they’d be in such a situation, being homeless results in much anxiety, emotional turmoil and fear about what to do to next to keep a roof over their family’s head.

Adding insult to the injury of these worries, did you know that in some states across the nation, losing your home can also result in losing your children? And that not being able to provide adequate shelter for your kids can be considered “child neglect?”

We were pleased to see this matter come to light in a recent post on change.org’s End Homelessness blog. The post points to parents who are doing what they can for their children, but are losing custody anyway because they have nowhere to live. Among her points, the author contends that:

* No one wants children sleeping on the streets (of course not!); but

* Legally stripping decent parents of custody and placing children in foster care is a painful, not to mention expensive, process.

* Former foster kids have high rates of homelessness; and

* Taking kids away from parents whose only “neglectful” behavior was becoming homeless, and then placing those kids in a system that puts them at greater risk for homelessness themselves, makes no sense.

At the Coalition, we are very aware that the state of Florida doesn’t specifically use the word “homeless” in defining child “neglect,” but decided to review Florida Statute 39.01 anyway. In doing so, we consulted the US Department of Health and Human Services Child Welfare Information Gateway report, a great document that summarizes the definitions of child abuse and neglect in each state. Interestingly, though the word “homeless” does not appear, the deprivation of shelter and the effects of an environment on a child’s physical, mental, or emotional health are referenced:

* Neglect occurs when a child is deprived of, or is allowed to be deprived of, necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical treatment or a child is permitted to live in an environment when such deprivation or environment causes the child’s physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired or to be in danger of being significantly impaired.

Whether or not the definition of “child neglect” includes a roof over one’s head, families staying at Coalition for the Homeless do not have to worry during this trying time. Not only do we provide shelter and food, but we offer the support and services they need to get back on the road to independence. And as they’re working toward a better life, their children benefit from our fully-licensed daycare and other programs to help break the cycle of homelessness.

All that ……and the family stays together!

To learn more about our programs and services for families with children and how you can help us do what we do to return them to self-sufficiency, please visit www.centralfloridahomeless.org.

Maybe you should give them some of your profound expertise in the homeless since you have worked with the Salvation Army and have NEVER seen children that are homeless. Maybe you could let them know just how wrong they are and that they or their parents are just drug addicts and alcoholics.

[jasd]

>>Um, you've brought anecdotes, but where are the substance and facts?<<

Whadya want?—a dissertation, complete with notes, references, and bibliography? From who – me? [/informally]

>>Let's see 'em: actual, reputable research studies published by unbiased bodies, showing *any* net harm to the US from either illegal immigrants...<<

You’re kidding, right? Are you positing that there is no net harm done by illegal immigration? I proffer that some things are so obvious that they are self-validating.

>>...or the use of languages other than English (since that's where we started).<<

So, why’s Quebec allas trying to separate from the rest of Canada? Is that a good thing? Can we say, Balkanization!

>>I'm all about substance and facts: bring 'em on!<<

Like, someone expressing his opinion is factually – ignorant and prejudiced? Where’s the substance of the charge and the factual truth of it?

>>All I'm hearing are anecdotal slanders, and yes, the prejudice that occurs when the actions of a few are imputed to their entire group.<<

Oh, let's add to fear, ignorance, prejudice, racism [...] --slander. That's a good one.

Anyway, I don't recall imputing to the whole the actions of the few. Definitely not. A bad 'reading' on your part.

“A little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf.” Who said that? Let’s ask Him about substance and fact...

Besides,

C’mon Bravus, easy on... everybody is just enjoying a little verbal tête-à-tête. :-)

[Guest]

Yeah Bravus! Lighten up why dontcha..

[Guest]

To learn more about our programs and services for families with children and how you can help us do what we do to return them to self-sufficiency, please visit www.centralfloridahomeless.org.

Maybe you should give them some of your profound expertise in the homeless since you have worked with the Salvation Army and have NEVER seen children that are homeless. Maybe you could let them know just how wrong they are and that they or their parents are just drug addicts and alcoholics.

Yeah Shane, help em out!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually

State's "cheap labor" costs average household $1,183 a year

By Robert Longley, About.com Guide

Dateline: December, 2004

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR. "Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate, already know the impact that mass illegal immigration is having on their communities, but even they may be shocked when they learn just how much of a drain illegal immigration has become."

The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Californians focuses on three specific program areas because those were the costs examined by researchers from the Urban Institute in 1994. Looking at the costs of education, health care and incarceration for illegal aliens in 1994, the Urban Institute estimated that California was subsidizing illegal immigrants to the tune of about $1.1 billion. The enormous rise in the costs of illegal immigrants over the intervening ten years is due to the rapid growth in illegal residents. It is reasonable to expect those costs to continue to soar if action is not taken to turn the tide.

"Nineteen ninety-four was the same year that California voters rebelled and overwhelmingly passed Proposition 187, which sought to limit liability for mass illegal immigration. Since then, state and local governments have blatantly ignored the wishes of the voters and continued to shell out publicly financed benefits on illegal aliens," said Stein. "Predictably, the costs of illegal immigration have grown geometrically, while the state has spiraled into a fiscal crisis that has brought it near bankruptcy.

"Nothing could more starkly illustrate the very high costs of ‘cheap labor' than California's current situation," continued Stein. "A small number of powerful interests in the state reap the benefits, while the average native-born family in California gets handed a nearly $1,200 a year bill."

And that's only California. source

[Bravus]

Oh, I'm extremely laid back. Very relaxed indeed.

I just took jasd at his word about what he was asking for. Check my .sig...

[lazarus]

Just an observation, not a reply to anyone....

We seem to have come full circle, the first immigrants to this country were fearful of the residents and so they did what ever they could to eradicate them or confine them. Now the residents are fearful of the immigrants and want to..............!

Crazy, ain't it!

It is. You reap what you sow.

My wife flew home to the UK for a short trip last year. She smiled when she was met by UK immigration officers from Indian heritage who said welcome home! A generation or two ago the grandparents of those same immigration officers were living under British colonial rule in India. In the UK approximately 60% of the small mom and pop stores in the UK were at one time owned by Indians. Colonization in reverse. Amazing to watch.

Perhaps in 50 years Spanish will become the official language of the USA.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Oh, I'm extremely laid back. Very relaxed indeed.

I just took jasd at his word about what he was asking for. Check my .sig...

I don't understand why you keep answering me about questions/assertions made by others.

I think the language of heaven is on a higher frequency than humans can hear. Maybe animals can hear it.

[Bravus]

Ack, this is the same confusion I sometimes have with bonnie.

I just always respond in the Quick Reply box, so my post looks like a reply to whoever just posted in the thread. My posts are usually in response to the whole thread, unless I mention someone by name - as I have a couple of times in this thread.

Apologies if that's confusing, but in future my posts should be read as responding to either the one immediately above them or the whole thread... whichever makes sense!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

@ Lazarus....why are you in America? You don't seem to like anything about it, and never have anything good to say about it. Why are you here? Just asking...not trying to be impertinent..

[lazarus]

@ Lazarus....why are you in America? You don't seem to like anything about it, and never have anything good to say about it. Why are you here? Just asking...

Interestingly, I could definitely say the same thing about you. There seems to be so much wrong with America for you too! I think you would like France, there is something definitely French about you. You remind me of a French you lady I once knew.

For the record, I like the Weather, Food, Diversity, Music, old America cars, accents.

Guess it's hard to think I don't like America when I have very different opinions from you. It's so interesting that disagreeing with the WASP perspective of the world is translated as "hate America". I'm here as a missionary anyway.

Quote:

not trying to be impertinent..

In this you have succeeded.

[Dr. Shane]

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

Teddy Roosevelt shows us that prejudice and fear of immigrants is nothing new. In his time it was the Germans and the Irish. The Germans didn't speak English and the Irish worshiped the pope. Well, now we have the Mexicans. They don't speak English and they worship the pope. Isn't it funny? The more things change the more they stay the same. Somehow the country survived the Germans and the Irish and it will survive the Mexicans too.

[Dr. Shane]

People are in far more danger from citizens than immigrants, many studies have shown

This is very true. Most criminals in the US are here legally. However there are many criminals that flee law enforcement in Mexico and come here seeking refuge. They are a minority of the illegals that come here. The vast majority (probably over 90%) of those that come here are just looking for work and not to make problems.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

Teddy Roosevelt shows us that prejudice and fear of immigrants is nothing new. In his time it was the Germans and the Irish. The Germans didn't speak English and the Irish worshiped the pope. Well, now we have the Mexicans. They don't speak English and they worship the pope. Isn't it funny? The more things change the more they stay the same. Somehow the country survived the Germans and the Irish and it will survive the Mexicans too.

Explain to me what is prejudice in your view about asking immigrants to learn the language for better job possibilities etc. Or what is fair and just about a immigrant saying "No,I have no intention of learning english,and you will take care of me"

The immigrants in the time of TR was just a tad different.

They were not offered any services to make their transition as easy as possible. They would have been laughed at or worse to suggest a translator be hired for them.To say nothing about the rest of services freely given to them.

[Dr. Shane]

let me remind – there is a reason they are called

anchor babies.