Salvation Lost?

[miz3]

1. The Law of God is still valid and its demands must be perfectly met or the penalty of death paid. (See Romans 3 and Gal 3)

2. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. (ibid)

3. God covers us with Christ's Righteousness - when we by faith accept the Gospel and allow the Holy Spirit to creat a new heart - to make a new creation. (2Cor 5 and Romans 5:1)

4. As long as we choose to continue "Walking in the Spirit" and "By the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh" (Rom 8) we are considered by God "to be the Children of God" Rom 8:14-16 and so remain covered by the Righteousness of Christ. Thus not only are we saved - but we also stay saved.

RIGHTEOUSNESS BY WORKS!

Its all about what man does and poor God He simply reacts. This is nothing but a HUMAN GLORIFICATION GOSPEL!

[Israfel]

"Obedience is the test of discipleship. It is the keeping of the commandments that proves the sincerity of our professions of love. When the doctrine we accept kills sin in the heart, purifies the soul from defilement, bears fruit unto holiness, we may know that it is the truth of God." [Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing, page 146, paragraph 3]

[Parade Orange]

This is a grim first post, I know, but I'm hoping for some Biblical answers.

I accepted Jesus as my savior in June of last year. I was baptized and began faithfully attending church. I was reading my Bible and praying nearly every day. I felt that I was growing closer to God and was happy.

That all changed about two months ago. You see, I've had an addiction to pornography for years (the majority of my life, really). I gladly gave that to the Lord last year when I asked him to cleanse me and become my savior. I thought I was rid of that sin, but about two months ago, I gave in to the temptation and decided to look at just a "little bit". And then a little more. Then I quit attending church, reading my Bible, or praying. I felt terrible, but found myself doing it anyway.

Now I look at porn almost as much as I ever did before salvation. It gives me a temporary feeling of euphoria, but I always regret it afterward. In fact, I pretty much despise myself for it.

I miss going to church. I miss reading my Bible. I miss praying to God. I feel so distant now as though I am stuck further in the mire than I ever was. It's worse now because I know how good my life was the eight months following salvation last year. I feel as if I failed God and myself.

I feel torn and confused. There are two passages in Hebrews that make me feel as if I've completely blown my chance with God.

Quote:

Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-27

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 

I've willfully sinned. I know that looking at porn (adultery in my heart) is wrong, and yet I do it anyway. I tell myself I just don't care. I've tasted of the heavenly gift and the goodness of God, yet I've fallen away.

I don't want to stay in this state. Neither do I believe that God would want me to. However, I just can't get past "it is impossible...to renew them again unto repentance" or "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

My mind thinks the most horrible thoughts. I think, if I'm forever doomed now because I've blown it with God, then what's the point? I may as well continue sinning now and enjoy myself while I can.

Surely this can't be it. Have I now lost my salvation because I willfully, and knowingly sinned against God?

Bob

u started this thread reaching out for some compassion ,prayers, and fellowship exposing the darker sides to the LIGHT

confessing your fautse one to another that ye might be healed and peeps are using this as an oportunity to debate, bully and insult each other

there are other threads to do that

this thread was started by someone reaching out

i never tire explaining GRACE to fellow christians cause they will rather win the argument than to win the soul

[DblEspresso]

Parade Orange, thank you for trying to bring this thread back around to topic.

I posted a reply back on page 2 which seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. Just to keep things together, I'm going to re-post it below.

[DblEspresso]

I want to thank each of you for taking the time to respond to a stranger's plea for help.

No doubt some of you are wondering what brought me to this board. Let me start here:

DBlExpresso, you are a brave and courageous person to come out open about this.

May I ask what church you got baptized into?

[DblEspresso]

DblEspresso:

Thank you for your testimony, it is powerful! Please keep us posted on your path to victory. Now I don't know if they have a program specifically for porn sites, I assume that they do, but Teen Chalenge has been having excellent programs for addictions.

[Parade Orange]

GBU DBLESPRESSO

thanku for being so kind and not getting upset about the high jacking

its a startling visual for a man crying out in the corner and a bunch od zealots running over to see the commotion and start debating ignoring someone's pleas

thats what happened in JESUS day!

[Guest]

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. Psa 37:23,24

[BobRyan]

1. The Law of God is still valid and its demands must be perfectly met or the penalty of death paid. (See Romans 3 and Gal 3)

2. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. (ibid)

3. God covers us with Christ's Righteousness - when we by faith accept the Gospel and allow the Holy Spirit to creat a new heart - to make a new creation. (2Cor 5 and Romans 5:1)

4. As long as we choose to continue "Walking in the Spirit" and "By the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh" (Rom 8) we are considered by God "to be the Children of God" Rom 8:14-16 and so remain covered by the Righteousness of Christ. Thus not only are we saved - but we also stay saved.

[phkrause]

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. Psa 37:23,24

And if anyone should know, its definitely David.

[phkrause]

You are preaching another gospel.

Maybe it would have been more helpful for you if I had included these two texts below - in addition to the ones highlighted in my post above.

"You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" James 2.

"It is not the hearers of the law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my Gospel God will judge the secrets of all mankind through the man Christ Jesus" Romans 2:11-16.

in Christ,

Bob

Excellent post Bob. The works that James and Paul are talking about are the works that come from Love and not from wanting to get somewhere.

[Sheila7]

Dear DblEspresso: I began reading your testimony and the subsequent posts yesterday through to page 10. Today, wanted to see where this thread has led. So glad that Parade Orange has stepped up to the plate. I agree with him completely. And it is today that I feel the Holy Spirit has led me back to your cry for help as have something to add that I pray may be of benefit.

Years ago, I was considered borderline alcoholic. I had left my church, forsaken my God and was on a downward spiral. A man I knew of the "world" was very familiar with Alcoholics Anonymous. He deemed it necessary that I should attend a meeting. Long story short, I found God again in that one meeting. For me, that was all it took. When they read out loud the "Twelve Steps" which speaks of seeking "through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out." I was shaken to the core, realizing God had always been there watching over me. The "connection between self-examination and meditation and prayer is the "unshakable foundation for life." Daily meditation through reading the Word of God and prayer brings an emotional balance, understanding of God's will for our/your life, and His grace is given to us/you to carry it out. It is NOT His will that you are addicted to porn. It is yours.

Romans 6:14 tells you how to free yourself from the domination of the sin your under. "For sin shall not have dominion over you..." "Anyone who is ruled by sin is living in disobedience, sin and disobedience are virtually synonymous. Grace is the path of deliverance from disobedience. Grace is God's resource for forgiveness of sin (thus rescuing us from the dominating penalty of sin): in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace" Ephesians 1:7

"Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" 2 Timothy 2:1

Renounce your flesh to God and ask for the work of His Spirit to fulfill His righteous requirements in your life.

Is my Prayer with and for you.

In Christ's holy love and grace.

Sheila7

[Parade Orange]

oh GOD BLESS YOU SHEILA!

u said better than i can even hope to say!

thank JESUS for the steps that lead u to HIM and thanku for sharing that crucial point to help someone seeking help

u folks out there know this was a thread of someone seeking help?

[Woody]

Quote:

"You aren't lost when you sin"

A big AMEN to that. This is the message that DblEspresso needs to hear.

Hope this helps you DblEspresso.

[Sonny]

"You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" James 2.

"It is not the hearers of the law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... Romans 2:11-16.

Both of these statements have been lifted out of their context! But let's go with your statement - a man must keep the law in order to be justified. If you believe this than you are worse than a Judaizer. Even the Judaizers believed you were justified by faith and then, through sanctification, you attained onto perfection.

But you, you are teaching that in order to be justified one must be a doer of the law.

You got to be kidding!

[Sonny]

The works that James and Paul are talking about are the works that come from Love and not from wanting to get somewhere.

But, according to you guys, if we aren't measuring up then we aren't going to get to heaven!! Last time I checked that's getting somewhere.

[Sonny]

It is NOT His will that you are addicted to porn. It is yours.

I fully disagree!!!

"Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I (my will) who do it, but sin that dwells in me." [Romans 7:20 NKJV]

[Kevin H]

Amen Shela7 and Prade Orange. DblEspresso, you said you want one step rather than 12 step. However God's one step is "For God so love the world" and that some kinds of demons don't leave unless fasting and prayer (which in Jesus' day ment a lot of long time prayerfully studying and researching) God works through the natural, wanting us to cooperate with his natural laws. God blesses us as we work with the best methods availble and they do not work perfectly as God wants us to improve on them. This is why Seventh-day Adventist run hospitals instead of sending out faith healers. There is a story of a guy in a flood, a boat came to rescue him and he said "Rescue others, I'll trust in the Lord to save me" The water rose and he was in his second floor window and another boat came, again he sent to boat off saying "I'll trust the Lord to save me" Soon he was on his roof and a hellocopter came, but the man again sent him off saying he was going to trust in God to save him. Well the water rose and the man drowned. At the resurection he asked the Lord "Why did you not save me in my hour of need?" to which the Lord replied "I sent you two boats and a hellocopter, what more could I have done?"

Teen Challenge, despite being evangelical, dispensational, are still at an advantage as they realize that thier higher power is Jesus. But God works through other programs as well. We need to work with what God has given us to work with and to love God's world enought to respect what he has given us. I'd like you to re-read Shela7's post, it is a special message that God has sent to you.

[miz3]

Right on Sonny!

This man needs to understand that it is God who has the power to Justify him and God does through Jesus Christ.

This man also needs to know that he cannot succeed on his own simply by obedience. He has demonstrated that in his own power he cannot obey.

If he asks God, God will give him the power to obey!!!!!!!!!

As the man of Romans cries out like this man, "who will save me from this wretched condition"?

What does Paul in Scripture say the answer is, "THANKS BE TO JESUS CHRIST"

It is the power of God that will overcome the sin in this man as God has been the over comer for us all!

[phkrause]

But, according to you guys, if we aren't measuring up then we aren't going to get to heaven!! Last time I checked that's getting somewhere.

And if we don't do anything, we're going to get somewhere anyway! Are we not???? We only have 2 places any of us are going to go. Either we will live with Christ for eternity or we will become extinct, plain and simple! So either way we are working towards something!

[Woody]

Quote:

If he asks God, God will give him the power to obey!!!!!!!!!

I can personally attest that while this sounds very spiritual and cool. It simply is not true. At least from my personal experience it is not.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

But, according to you guys, if we aren't measuring up then we aren't going to get to heaven!! Last time I checked that's getting somewhere.

And if we don't do anything, we're going to get somewhere anyway!

Point is you contradicted yourself. You said we don't obey to get in....Now you are saying we do. Which is it?

[ClubV12]

I have found it to be true in my own life. I give my "will" to God and ask Him to take it and shape it, and I am pleasently surprised to find that that really works. When I pray I talk to Him about specific issues I'm having, lay them out, get them in the open, ask for the WILL power to follow through on gaining the victory.

My personal experience has been, that when temptation comes He provides a way out, in such a way that I can more clearly see what is about to happen. I see the choice I am offered. Sometimes "circumstances conspire" in such a way that it takes more will to follow through with a sin than to simply avoid it. THATS when I recognize He is not only increasing my will power but making the way of escape, the choice, easier to accept as well.

Thus, it IS true, that faith is like a muscle, you need to exercise it.

...I'm working on it, give me some more time. Meanwhile, I claim His righteousness to cover me and I love the peace that brings with it. Sometimes, when I'm SO down I can barely look up, so assaulted by the evil one I feel totally unworthy of even breathing a prayer, THATS when I really need and claim His righteouness. As that sense of peace begins to gather within one's soul you recognize the great love He has for you. It is that love that begins to increase the faith "exercise the muscle" when you can't even move!

I'm still struggling to explain righteouness by faith in practical and real terms, but I think I'm getting there. It really is a wonderful thing, it does not do away with the law, it creates a condition where I see and appreciate the law on a different level.

[Woody]

Where do you draw the line V12? Or is there no line. Can you simply ask God to help you resist all sin and then it is done. IF that were so then there should be a lot of perfect people walkin' the earth.

I will say again - there are times I've asked God to give me the power for victory and He has refused. Not sure why but I suppose I will learn in Heaven.

Whatever - Once I've asked Him it's HIS responsibility and not mine. I can't be responsible for Him not doing HIS job.

[hch]

Where do you draw the line V12? Or is there no line. Can you simply ask God to help you resist all sin and then it is done. IF that were so then there should be a lot of perfect people walkin' the earth.

I will say again - there are times I've asked God to give me the power for victory and He has refused. Not sure why but I suppose I will learn in Heaven.

Whatever - Once I've asked Him it's HIS responsibility and not mine. I can't be responsible for Him not doing HIS job.

I once read that if we cherish sin in out heart, God won't hear us. I struggled with sin and lost repeatedly, until I realized that I did not want to have the victory, I wanted the sin.

The victory came when I allowed Jesus to take the desire for the sin and replace it with a desire for Him.