Moderators John317 Posted August 1, 2011 Moderators Posted August 1, 2011 ....“Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Those specifications cannot be applied by the expositor to anytime between AD 1798 and AD 1844. We know that by noting (in the one instance) the logistics and surgical procedures during the Napoleonic Wars. The book of Daniel was unsealed at the beginning of the time of the end, that is, in 1798. You seem to be saying that since certain surgical procedures were used during the Napolenoic War, we know that the book of Daniel was not unsealed. But what makes you think that the prophecy is telling you that at a certain point, all the people's knowledge will be the same? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 If one googles: 1. "what happened in 538AD" you get a whole bunch of SDA claims. There are NO LEGITIMATE HISTORIANS OR HISTORICAL FACTS that support the date as special in history or special in the history of the RCC! Go read my new post on the 1260, and see for yourself. Quote: 2. "when did the papacy begin" you get various sources stating the RCC position that Peter was the first pope. You also get various others citing other dates but none of them cite anything close to 538AD. SDA's never have believed that the Papacy began in 538. You're still living in La La Land, and don't know what's up, what's down, what's left, and what's right on this subject. We have always taught that the Papacy began as early as the 1st Century. Quote: 3. The best date I found for the beginning of Papal power began with two bishops of Rome, Damascus I and Siricius who existed from the middle to late fourth century! That is a long time away from 538! Once again, you're floating in Ice Cream Candy Lane. You are completely ignorant as to what makes the 538 A.D. the "beginning" point for Papal Supremacy. Even Paul admitted that the Mystery of Iniquity was already at work in the 1st century. 538 A.D. has NOTHING to do with the beginnings of the Papacy. Nothing. You need to get out of Christmas Candy Lane now. Quote: This coincides with the historians who I have read! 4. The first Bishop to carry the name of Pope was Pope Herecleus (232-249AD) of Alexandria! The first Bishop of Rome to claim the title of Pope was Pope Marcellenus who died in 304AD. Most Historians seem to give the Papacy huge power does not occur until the 8th Century AD (that is the 700s). None of these dates is even close to the 538AD proposed by the SDA Church! It seems that SDA are isolated on this point! LOOKS LIKE NO HISTORICAL SUPPORT FOR THE DATE 538AD AS THE START OF THE PAPACY! More bird-chirpin gibberish nonsense. No SDA's have ever claimed that 538 A.D. was the start of the Papacy, nor has Ellen White ever said such a loony thing. Most historians use the 8th century as the beginning of Papal Power!(see my post above)! Again, all you can do is insult me! You have no FACTS! You have no historical support, so you insult and point to trivial items. The FACT IS SDA are lone voices in asserting the 538AD date as a "significant date in the history of the papacy"! This makes you mad because such FACT ruins your theory! You can fool the uninformed but it does not work here. Thus, I understand your insults toward me! Any old fool can fish for something and assert that this date is significant for such and such reason. However, that does not make it true. It certainly does not make it a "PROPHETIC HISTORICAL MARKER"! (which is what you are asserting)! Quote
Lysimachus Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Most historians use the 8th century as the beginning of Papal Power!(see my post above)! Again, all you can do is insult me! You have no FACTS! You have no historical support, so you insult and point to trivial items. The FACT IS SDA are lone voices in asserting the 538AD date as a "significant date in the history of the papacy"! This makes you mad because such FACT ruins your theory! You can fool the uninformed but it does not work here. Thus, I understand your insults toward me! Any old fool can fish for something and assert that this date is significant for such and such reason. However, that does not make it true. It certainly does not make it a "PROPHETIC HISTORICAL MARKER"! (which is what you are asserting)! I notice you like to switch modes when it is convenient for you. When it is convenient for you, you will argue that the Papacy began as far back as Peter, countering our claim against the 538. Then you end up contradicting your original counter-claim by stating that the Papal Power didn't commence until the 8th century according to historians. So which is it, Peter's time or the 8th century? make up your mind. Once again, we're not claiming that "Papal Power" bore full sway in 538. 538 was the first major Sunday Law that was enforced, changing the 4th commandment, after receiving full jurisdiction and authorization from Justinian's Code, making this law universally in effect. 538 A.D. was the "beginning" of the steady climb toward it's full-spring-board effect in the 8th century. The 1260 years exist BETWEEN the TWO CODES: 1. The Code of Justinian -- giving the Church of Rome full ecclesiastical control over "all the Churches", and as the "corrector of heretics", declaring the Pope the "head of all the Churches", and elevating ecclesiastical law to the level of the State, so that whatever the laws of the Canons decided, it was to be considered in force by the law of the State. 2. The Code of Napoleon -- which ABOLISHED the temporal power of the Papacy, and subverted it BACK under the jurisdiction of the State! You REFUSE, and I repeat REFUSE to acknowledge THESE FACTS. I have to pray to God that I do not lose my Christian experience over your cherished doubts and disbelief! Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
jasd Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 >>The book of Daniel was unsealed at the beginning of the time of the end, that is, in 1798.<< So you say; however, just peruse the historical facts. People, for the most part, if they were fortunate, went about on horseback or carriage – otherwise it was by mare’s shank – of necessity. Surgical procedures had no concept of germs. Is that – running to and fro with knowledge increased?—I don’t think the honest person can attest to that. >>You seem to be saying that since certain surgical procedures were used during the Napolenoic War, we know that the book of Daniel was not unsealed.<< Exactly. Read of the methods of surgical practice during the time period. I think Gd credits us with the common sense to realize that those conditions extant – do not qualify as ‘knowledge increased’. >>But what makes you think that the prophecy is telling you that at a certain point, all the people's knowledge will be the same?<< Should that be the case – it still remains that the time period between AD 1798 and AD 1844 cannot meet either the criterion or the criteria of text – by any peoples -- anywhere. >>The book of Daniel was unsealed at the beginning of the time of the end, that is, in 1798.<< So you say; however, just peruse the historical facts. People, for the most part, if they were fortunate, went about on horseback or carriage – otherwise it was by mare’s shank – of necessity. Surgical procedures had no concept of germs. Is that – running to and fro with knowledge increased?—I don’t think the honest person can attest to that. >>You seem to be saying that since certain surgical procedures were used during the Napolenoic War, we know that the book of Daniel was not unsealed.<< Exactly. Read of the methods of surgical practice during that time period. I think Gd credits us with the common sense to realize that those conditions extant – do not qualify as ‘knowledge increased’. >>But what makes you think that the prophecy is telling you that at a certain point, all the people's knowledge will be the same?<< Should that be the case – it still remains that the time period between AD 1798 and AD 1844 cannot meet either the criterion or the criteria of text – by any peoples -- anywhere. Quote
miz3 Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Most historians use the 8th century as the beginning of Papal Power!(see my post above)! Again, all you can do is insult me! You have no FACTS! You have no historical support, so you insult and point to trivial items. The FACT IS SDA are lone voices in asserting the 538AD date as a "significant date in the history of the papacy"! This makes you mad because such FACT ruins your theory! You can fool the uninformed but it does not work here. Thus, I understand your insults toward me! Any old fool can fish for something and assert that this date is significant for such and such reason. However, that does not make it true. It certainly does not make it a "PROPHETIC HISTORICAL MARKER"! (which is what you are asserting)! I notice you like to switch modes when it is convenient for you. When it is convenient for you, you will argue that the Papacy began as far back as Peter, countering our claim against the 538. Then you end up contradicting your original counter-claim by stating that the Papal Power didn't commence until the 8th century according to historians. So which is it, Peter's time or the 8th century? make up your mind. Once again, we're not claiming that "Papal Power" bore full sway in 538. 538 was the first major Sunday Law that was enforced, changing the 4th commandment, after receiving full jurisdiction and authorization from Justinian's Code, making this law universally in effect. 538 A.D. was the "beginning" of the steady climb toward it's full-spring-board effect in the 8th century. The 1260 years exist BETWEEN the TWO CODES: 1. The Code of Justinian -- giving the Church of Rome full ecclesiastical control over "all the Churches", and as the "corrector of heretics", declaring the Pope the "head of all the Churches", and elevating ecclesiastical law to the level of the State, so that whatever the laws of the Canons decided, it was to be considered in force by the law of the State. 2. The Code of Napoleon -- which ABOLISHED the temporal power of the Papacy, and subverted it BACK under the jurisdiction of the State! You REFUSE, and I repeat REFUSE to acknowledge THESE FACTS. I have to pray to God that I do not lose my Christian experience over your cherished doubts and disbelief! You do not listen well. I have noticed that you do not absorb the information well. You constantly misstate what I actually say! Is this because you are so used to twisting information that it comes naturally to you? 1. I did not switch modes. Read what I said carefully! I said the RCC starts the Popes at Peter! Second, historians start significant Papal Power at the 8th Century. Those are two separate and different points that I made! These are FACTS! You accuse me of using these facts in a way that I never, ever stated! I stated each them merely for information and not as some grand theory. 2. I never claimed that you were asserting that 538AD was Papal full power! The fact is throughout the Dark Ages the power wielded by the papacy went up and down! What I was asserting is that 538AD is not any more significant than many other dates in the history of the papacy! The same can be said for the demise of the Roman Empire! One could argue that the Roman Empire of Constantine was the last truly significant Roman Empire. Thus, after his death the Roman Empire was really no longer an Empire! Thus, one could use 337AD as the end of the Roman Empire! However, the date usually used for the end of the Western Roman Empire is 476AD. 3. The Napoleonic Code did not take place till 1804! Thus, 1798 is not valid! 4. The Code of Justinian was completed between 529AD and 534AD! Thus, once again 538AD goes out the window! 5. Let's see if we use 529AD to 1804AD we get 1275years! That throws out your 1260 year stuff! 6. If we use 534AD to 1804AD we get 1270years! Again, that throws out your 1260 year stuff! 7. If we use the historical marker for the end of the Roman Empire 476AD, we get 1328years which is also not in the Bible! 8. If we take 1260 years back from 1804AD we get 544AD! The date 544AD has no historical significance that I know of in regard to the Papacy! Sorry my friend your calculations just don't add up! NO CODE TO CODE PROPHECY HERE! Quote
hch Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 NO CODE TO CODE PROPHECY HERE! Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
Lysimachus Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 You do not listen well. I have noticed that you do not absorb the information well. You constantly misstate what I actually say! Is this because you are so used to twisting information that it comes naturally to you? 1. I did not switch modes. Read what I said carefully! I said the RCC starts the Popes at Peter! Second, historians start significant Papal Power at the 8th Century. Those are two separate and different points that I made! These are FACTS! You accuse me of using these facts in a way that I never, ever stated! I stated each them merely for information and not as some grand theory. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 I never said the 1260 years commences with the Code of Justinian and ends with the Code of Napoleon. I said the 1260 years is BETWEEN these two codes!! Justinian's Code was made in 530 and 533 A.D. But exercising it's laws did not come into full fruition until 538 A.D. when Justinian subjugated all the Arian Churches in Italy. In 1798, Napoleon took the LEGAL action in 1798 which he put in his code in 1804. Once again, you are wrong. Dead wrong. The Code of Justinian is outside your parameters. To say it came to full fruition in 538 is just a flat falsehood! No one asserts that as a historian! Your just making SPIN! Napoleon could not take "legal action" when the Napoleonic Code was not even existent in 1798! The Napoleonic Code came six years later! You are just filled with SPIN! Your dancin, and dancin! You are not being credible. If you were giving me Bible Studies and I raised these questions as I have I would throw you out of my house because you keep moving the "goal posts"! That is not a good advertisement for SDA Church! If you have to stretch as far as you are stretching to establish your point of 538AD and 1798AD I know it cannot be a credible date. If it was a credible date then it would be easy to see the beginning and the end! You would not have to go to the lengths you do if you were credible! If this is the vital gospel that SDA are preaching to the world then you will fall and fall hard! I don't see Jesus Christ and Him Crucified in any of this! Quote
hch Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 If it was a credible date then it would be easy to see the beginning and the end! You would not have to go to the lengths you do if you were credible! I have read the bantering and the counter posting. The fact is that the Scriptures cite time, times and the dividing of time. This is a 1260-day period that has a literal fulfillment as 1260-years from 538-1798. Since you refuse to recognize the 1260-days because you refuse the day for a year principle, then the abundance of evidence will not persuade you to change your view. But the fact of the matter is that in 538 Pope Vigilus was installed over the church in Rome by the Eastern Roman Empire's army with 700 pounds of gold in his possession to finance the merger. The Church became an extension of the state at that time. The Catholic encyclopedia has all the details. Thus a Church state relationship began that has endured until the French deposed Pope Pius VI in 1798. The prophet Daniel states that the wise will understand, so it is not to be assumed that everyone will understand. And if the world does not recognize the facts that the Bible foretells and renowned scholars do not see them, so be it. Prophecy will continue to be fulfilled as it is foretold and the end will come as an overwhelming surprise to those that could not see past the satanic shadow cast over their view. In these last days the 43-months have been repeated from 9/11/01 to 4/2/05 and the world is oblivious to it as well. But we are in the final countdown of prophetic history and those things that were foretold are upon us whether we know it or not. His Child Henry Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
Lysimachus Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 I have read the bantering and the counter posting. The fact is that the Scriptures cite time, times and the dividing of time. This is a 1260-day period that has a literal fulfillment as 1260-years from 538-1798. Since you refuse to recognize the 1260-days because you refuse the day for a year principle, then the abundance of evidence will not persuade you to change your view. But the fact of the matter is that in 538 Pope Vigilus was installed over the church in Rome by the Eastern Roman Empire's army with 700 pounds of gold in his possession to finance the merger. The Church became an extension of the state at that time. The Catholic encyclopedia has all the details. Thus a Church state relationship began that has endured until the French deposed Pope Pius VI in 1798. The prophet Daniel states that the wise will understand, so it is not to be assumed that everyone will understand. And if the world does not recognize the facts that the Bible foretells and renowned scholars do not see them, so be it. Prophecy will continue to be fulfilled as it is foretold and the end will come as an overwhelming surprise to those that could not see past the satanic shadow cast over their view. Very well stated HCH. I was going to respond to miz3 again, but decided not to, because I realize that no matter how many times I say things to him, he always chooses to let it go one ear and out the other, and refuses to exercise his mind to ascertain and grasp what I am saying. He will continue to get "caught up" on the phrase I used "1260 between the two codes", as if I meant to say that the codes mark the beginning and the end, and that is not what I said, but he will continue and stubbornly persist to say that is what I said. Oh well. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Moderators John317 Posted August 2, 2011 Moderators Posted August 2, 2011 >>The book of Daniel was unsealed at the beginning of the time of the end, that is, in 1798.<< So you say; however, just peruse the historical facts. People, for the most part, if they were fortunate, went about on horseback or carriage otherwise it was by mare shank of necessity. Surgical procedures had no concept of germs. Is that running to and fro with knowledge increased?I dont think the honest person can attest to that. The Bible doesn't say the book of Daniel won't be unsealed as long as people use horses for travel. That's an absurdity. Actually, the running to and fro has nothing primarily to do with travel. It's an expression that describes people studying the book of Daniel. The knowledge of the book of Daniel will increase because of people studying it. Secondarily it is speaking of general knowledge and increase in travel, but it doesn't say how people will travel. By 1798, people were traveling a lot more and traveling a lot further and more often than they were in 1700. And by that time, they were also learning more than ever before. If you compare the discoveries made after 1798 with the discovering made before that date, you will see an amazing difference. And many of the inventions had to do with the means of travel. Here's something the wikipedia says about the history of railroads, showing that the train came into being between 1789 and 1804, so that it was being invented and developed in 1798: Quote: ...William Jessop, a civil engineer, had used a form of edge rail successfully for an extension to the Charnwood Forest Canal at Nanpantan, Loughborough, Leicestershire in 1789. Jessop became a partner in the Butterley Company in 1790. The flanged wheel eventually proved its superiority due to its performance on curves, and the composite iron/wood rail was replaced by all metal rail, with its vastly superior stiffness, durability, and safety. .... James Watt, a Scottish inventor and mechanical engineer, was responsible for improvements to the steam engine of Thomas Newcomen, hitherto used to pump water out of mines. ...he actually patented a design for a steam locomotive in 1784. His employee William Murdoch produced a working model of a self propelled steam carriage in that year. A replica of Trevithick's engine at the National Waterfront Museum, Swansea The first working model of a steam rail locomotive was designed and constructed by John Fitch in the United States in 1794. The first full scale working railway steam locomotive was built in the United Kingdom in 1804 by Richard Trevithick, an English engineer born in Cornwall. ... On 21 February 1804 the world's first railway journey took place as Trevithick's unnamed steam locomotive hauled a train along the tramway of the Penydarren ironworks, near Merthyr Tydfil in South Wales. ... On 26 July 1803, Jessop opened the Surrey Iron Railway in south London - arguably, the world's first public railway, albeit a horse-drawn one. It was not a railway in the modern sense of the word, as it functioned like a turnpike road. There were no official services, as anyone could bring a vehicle on the railway by paying a toll. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Lysimachus Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 That is very enlightening information John317, thanks for sharing! Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 If it was a credible date then it would be easy to see the beginning and the end! You would not have to go to the lengths you do if you were credible! I have read the bantering and the counter posting. The fact is that the Scriptures cite time, times and the dividing of time. This is a 1260-day period that has a literal fulfillment as 1260-years from 538-1798. Since you refuse to recognize the 1260-days because you refuse the day for a year principle, then the abundance of evidence will not persuade you to change your view. But the fact of the matter is that in 538 Pope Vigilus was installed over the church in Rome by the Eastern Roman Empire's army with 700 pounds of gold in his possession to finance the merger. The Church became an extension of the state at that time. The Catholic encyclopedia has all the details. Thus a Church state relationship began that has endured until the French deposed Pope Pius VI in 1798. The prophet Daniel states that the wise will understand, so it is not to be assumed that everyone will understand. And if the world does not recognize the facts that the Bible foretells and renowned scholars do not see them, so be it. Prophecy will continue to be fulfilled as it is foretold and the end will come as an overwhelming surprise to those that could not see past the satanic shadow cast over their view. In these last days the 43-months have been repeated from 9/11/01 to 4/2/05 and the world is oblivious to it as well. But we are in the final countdown of prophetic history and those things that were foretold are upon us whether we know it or not. His Child Henry Commenting on the enlarged type and the underlined part: The relationship between the Church/State existed long before that! In days of Emperor Constantine the Great when he made Christianity the religion of the state. That was back in the fourth century! That edict and event is much more significant than the event you cite in 538AD. Did things happen in 538AD concerning the Papacy? Of course! The question is as to history how major or minor are these events when compared to other events in history! In that light nothing of real SIGNIFICANCE OCCURRED IN 538AD as compared to the time line of history! It is clear that you and others are desperately grasping at straws to justify your erroneous theology! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 2, 2011 Moderators Posted August 2, 2011 The relationship between the Church/State existed long before that! In days of Emperor Constantine the Great when he made Christianity the religion of the state. That was back in the fourth century! That edict and event is much more significant than the event you cite in 538AD. The policy of Constantine was important because it was a preparation for the papal system. The significance of the date 538 AD is that the little-horn power, the papacy, established itself as a church/state power and ruled from that point on until 1798, exactly 1,260 years later. Based on Bible prophecy, it was predicted in the 1800s that the papacy would eventually return to its former power. It was also predicted on the basis of Rev. 13 that the USA would eventually become a great world power and lead the nations in making the image to the beast. The USA and the papacy have already forged a close alliance and in doing this, they were the main instruments in the collapse of the USSR and the eastern European block. The stage is set for the next phase, which the Bible is very clear on. But, according to the book of Daniel, only the spiritually wise will understand and prepare. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 The relationship between the Church/State existed long before that! In days of Emperor Constantine the Great when he made Christianity the religion of the state. That was back in the fourth century! That edict and event is much more significant than the event you cite in 538AD. The policy of Constantine was important because it was a preparation for the papal system. The significance of the date 538 AD is that the little-horn power, the papacy, established itself as a church/state power and ruled from that point on until 1798, exactly 1,260 years later. Based on Bible prophecy, it was predicted in the 1800s that the papacy would eventually return to its former power. It was also predicted on the basis of Rev. 13 that the USA would eventually become a great world power and lead the nations in making the image to the beast. The USA and the papacy have already forged a close alliance and in doing this, they were the main instruments in the collapse of the USSR and the eastern European block. The stage is set for the next phase, which the Bible is very clear on. But, according to the book of Daniel, only the spiritually wise will understand and prepare. NOPE! 538AD HAS NO REAL SIGNIFICANCE COMPARED TO OTHER DATES IN THE ISSUE YOU DESCRIBE! THE PAPAL CHURCH WAS ALREADY EXERCISING SUCH POWER! THE SAME IS TRUE FOR THE 1798AD DATE AS WELL! Quote
Primevil60 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 how was the papal church exercising such power before 538? have any examples of this power they had? Quote Every winner has scars
Lysimachus Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 NOPE! 538AD HAS NO REAL SIGNIFICANCE COMPARED TO OTHER DATES IN THE ISSUE YOU DESCRIBE! THE PAPAL CHURCH WAS ALREADY EXERCISING SUCH POWER! THE SAME IS TRUE FOR THE 1798AD DATE AS WELL! http://youtu.be/rTqWvpIv-Bk?t=4m47s Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 No year/day! No 538AD! No 1798AD! No 2300years! No 1844! No Daniel prophecy after the Roman Empire! Quote
Primevil60 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 what a surprise, you didn't answer my question. btw sounds like you are desparately trying to convince YOURSELF Quote Every winner has scars
Guest Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 No year/day! No 538AD! No 1798AD! No 2300years! No 1844! No Daniel prophecy after the Roman Empire! Ok, so you have a twisted, non-functional view of prophecy. What's your point? Quote
ClubV12 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 When it comes to talking to miz3 about this stuff your beating a dead horse. Logic and reason and evidence mean nothing to this guy, it's all on an emotional basis. Quote
jasd Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 >>The Bible doesn't say the book of Daniel won't be unsealed as long as people use horses for travel.<< That is an explanative by example. >>That's an absurdity.<< There is no ‘Trinity’ in Writ – you yet persist in that absurdity? >>Actually, the running to and fro has nothing primarily to do with travel. It's an expression that describes people studying the book of Daniel. Now THAT is an absurdity. One would think that the author of the book, himself – did not ‘run to and fro’ through his scroll, lacking understanding – until Gd told him that the words (book) were/was sealed. That is recourse to the proverbial sow’s ear and silk. >>The knowledge of the book of Daniel will increase because of people studying it.<< The Jews who canonized their writings recognized the meaning of SEAL – and thereafter, did not place the book of Daniel among the prophets. It meant that it is those of us living now – when the two parameters that unseal the book are met – who are obliged to seek understanding of the visions of Daniel. That would be today – not centuries ago... Those prior, presumed upon Gd – and those echoing the miscarried interpretations serving as those feathered things along the banks of the Orinoco. >>Secondarily it is speaking of general knowledge and increase in travel, but it doesn't say how people will travel.<< Indeed not; however, to hear you tell it – they, of need, must do so by finger-running through pages... >>By 1798, people were traveling a lot more and traveling a lot further and more often than they were in 1700. And by that time, they were also learning more than ever before.<< And by AD 1844..., were not the Whites still hooking horse to buggy?—on the Sabbath, yet! >>If you compare the discoveries made after 1798 with the discovering made before that date, you will see an amazing difference. And many of the inventions had to do with the means of travel.<< I agree (note my dates for the restoration of the COI); however, there is always a time lag between the conception, implementation, and utilization. How many do you suppose were able to avail themselves of services at Nanpantan, Loughborough, Leicestershire in 1789 – and therefore, ran to and fro? It is as you yourself note in your following posts: by phase and incrementally... People were not running to and fro then – and neither was the increase in knowledge maximally measureable... that remained for today, when we are manufacturing anti-gravity vehicles, traveling through space, scanning the very atoms of molecules (and building/assembling atom by atom), creating hybrids and chimera, etc... It is time to lay to rest the arcane imaginings of those who presumed upon the ‘sealing’ of Gd – and tend to what He has given US to do – specifically. Quote
jasd Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 >>how was the papal church exercising such power before 538? have any examples of this power they had?<< I’ve seen told on these very boards that the “papal church” had the power to inflict the Dark Ages upon mankind, and in fact, did so – which same began in the 4th century AD... oooo-la! Quote
miz3 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 how was the papal church exercising such power before 538? have any examples of this power they had? You can read it in the history! As early as the second century the Bishop of Rome was exercising ecclesiastical power over the other churches! This rising culminated in fuller power in the eighth century! Thus, between the second century and the 8th century there was a gradual increase in power. NO historian or history of the RCC makes 538AD as being more special than so many other events between the second century and the eighth century! Thus, if you will do a little research on your own you can easily find what you are looking for! Quote
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