70 x 7

[Truth Files]

"You take my meaning..."

I am speaking of the events [the "words" describe events] that have been delayed .... not ones that have come to pass that you mention

The events delayed are of the future 70th week decreed including the last 1260 days + 30 days + 45 days] noted specifically in chapter 12

These are the future events that have been delayed [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9; 11:36-45; 12]

.... until the time appointed [Daniel 11:35]

So I cannot agree with your meaning

[wayfinder]

Just one small question, what makes the 70th week 70 if it doesn't start when the 69th week ends? ie 68,69,70. If the week following the 69th week was not the 70th then how could you call a week hundreds of years in the future the 70th week?

You can only delay events not numerical sequence.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The fact that PAGANS used year/day cycles does not mean that God does! We do not get our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might but the Bible does not! In fact God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows they are not to copy the practices and the culture of the pagans around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis erroneous! You should really read the Bible instead of spending so much time in pagan sources!

The most important fact is that the year/day principle is not in the Bible. Don't bother to quote me Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special singular events that were specifically for that event alone. The Bible does not anywhere say anything about a broad principle of year/day!

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Quit acting like a child miz3. Your answers are always immature and annoying. IF you decide to never change, I look forward to that joyful day when you leave this forum, then I wont' have to hear your repetitive tautological noise.

Nobody is suggesting that we use the year/day principle because the Pagans used it!! NOBODY!! Quit this foolishness! The point being made is that this was a TRADITIONAL PARALLELISM USED EVEN BY THE ANCIENTS -- OLD TESTAMENT WRITERS OFTEN USED ANCIENT TRADITIONAL WRITING STYLES SO THAT THEIR READERS COULD UNDERSTAND! Do you UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS? *WWHEEWW*

Sometimes I wonder about you miz3. It's like you're getting worse with the way you use your brain as we progress in these forums.

I have already given you PLENTY of day/year studies WHICH YOU HAVE PURPOSELY IGNORED! Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34 are just TWO tiny examples out of SCORES!

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/YearDay80.pdf

http://secretsunsealed.org/downloads/yeardayprinciple.pdf

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Jrnl/Dan0924-27_DayYear.pdf

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Heb_Sbcym.pdf

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/YearDay_Full.pdf

Now FACE the music HEAD ON, and READ THESE PAPERS!! I will NOT LET YOU OFF THE HOOK UNTIL YOU DO.

Insults, insults, more insults. That is all you have got. I am thankful that I have the True Truth. That would be the Bible! Thus, my Author is God, Himself!

All I get from you and others is "human" authors who don't know anymore than any other humans. I find no where in Scripture that such human sources are inspired!

You are free to read all the "UNINSPIRED" WORKS YOU WANT!

AS FOR ME, I WILL READ AND STUDY THE LORD GOD OF HEAVEN FROM HIS WORD THE BIBLE!

There is a wide chasm between what you source and what I Source!

All you can do is insult me and John317 does nothing about your personal attacks.

It makes me wonder who is really welcome here at the forum and who is not!

[Lysimachus]

Insults, insults, more insults. That is all you have got. I am thankful that I have the True Truth. That would be the Bible! Thus, my Author is God, Himself!

[hch]

Just an observation: The prophecy of Daniel 8 was not sealed up, it was the prophecy of Daniel 10-12.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

[hch]

Not wishing to bog this thread down with a complete Bible study on the matter – who? according to the red letters of Holy Writ, said, “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.” (Jn 11:26)

Note: the conjunctive “and” and the Greek emphatic double negative “shall never”. Jesus Christ could not have been more forthcoming re the state of the dead “who liveth and believeth” in Him.

Thus you would have Jesus contradict Scripture?

Psalms 115:17 "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

Ps 13:3 "Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;"

[ClubV12]

No wonder miz3 doesn't feel all warm and fuzzy and welcome around here, just consider the way he talks to everybody. Talk that way in a "bar" miz, and you would be missing half your teeth by midnight!

And puhleasse, loose the martyr syndrome everyone is picking on me bit, you make your own bed, lie in it. Oh wait, I made a pun, "Lie in it", oh, well done!!

[miz3]

And who's the one being arrogant? Ooohh. Here you are the only one who has "the True Truth!" Should I give you a feather for your hat? You are like the Pope! You interpret the Bible the right way, and everybody else interprets it the wrong way! But wait a minute, aren't Adventists only the ones guilty of that? Hmmm...

1. Who is the one being arrogant?

YOU!

2. Are you the only one who has the "True Truth"?

NO! THE BIBLE DOES! THAT IS WHY I QUOTE IT RATHER THAN MY WORDS!

You are actually the one who quotes the words of human knowledge!

3. Interpretation?

THE BIBLE IS ABLE TO INTERPRET ITSELF! IT DOES NOT NEED YOU OR MY HELP!

[wayfinder]

So you are saying that the entire book of Daniel from chapter 1 to chapter 12 was sealed in the forth century BCE, that is very hard for me to accept, the prophecy of Daniel 9 had a beginning and ending before the "time of the end". It would be hard to prove that God was speaking of the whole book of Daniel.

[miz3]

You are "absolutely" confident that our interpretations of the "year/day" are wrong. You've stated it more than once. So thus, you are placing your opinion about this above everyone else's opinion, which in a sense, you are considering yourself "inspired".

1. You are absolutely confident that our interpretations of the "year/day" are wrong?

YES! YES! YES!

2. So thus, you are placing your opinion about this above everyone else's opinion?

NO NOT MY OPINION! I AM PLACING THE BIBLE ABOVE YOUR OPINION AND THE OPINIONS OF OTHER HUMANS!

3. You are considering yourself "inspired"?

NO! NO! NO! I AM CONSIDERING THE BIBLE TO BE INSPIRED! I AM ALSO SAYING THAT YOUR HUMANS SOURCES ARE NOT INSPIRED!

[hch]

I understand that the fulfillment of this prophecy is in the future.

What was once future is now upon us. As the 1335-days of the endtime have been fulfilled almost 2300-days ago. A literal 2300-days from the end of the 1335-days, will be just before 7 Octobr 2011.

A little deeper Bible study might be beneficial?

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

[wayfinder]

"The Almighty comes October 8". The 1335 days start near the end of June or early part of July, if my expectations are correct.

[miz3]

You are still placing your "private interpretation" of the Bible over everyone else's interpretation. This means that you are truly not relying on the inspired writings. You cannot interpret the Bible with your own private interpretation. You must seek counsel with a humble, teachable, and submissive Spirit.

"Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5

1. NO! I AM PLACING THE BIBLE OVER YOUR PRIVATE OPINION AND THE PRIVATE OPINION OF THOSE HUMANS WHO AGREE WITH YOU!

2. 1 PETER 5:5 IS A GOOD TEXT THAT APPLIES TO YOU TO A "T"! IN FACT YOU SHOULD HEED ITS ADVICE AND BE "SUBJECT" TO THE BIBLE AND I IN REGARD TO THE "YEAR/DAY"!

YUP! GOOD ADVICE FOR YOU AND YOURS!

[hch]

"I understand that the fulfillment of this prophecy is in the future"

>Your understanding is correct .... all of it

It was difficult in Jeremiah's day to distinguish between Jeremiah and Hananiah.

It is easy for us to look back to Jeremiah NOW and see that Hananiah was the false prophet. But those alive at the time could only make the right call by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Likewise now that these things are upon us, many are having difficulty seeing the Present Truth that they need to understand.

But alas when Christ Comes, 1/2 the waiting virgins will be ready. So sad -too bad about the rest of them that did not wake up in time. When truth does not fit into their file, they make conclusions that cast a shadow over the light of truth shining from God's throne for their blessing.

[miz3]

He just might have to one day, but I pray he doesn't have to. I'm really being tested right now, but that isn't without you REALLY provoking either. And we know about what the Bible says concerning those who provoke and tempt.

Learn to become a more pleasant person to be around, and then we won't get tempted to get frustrated with you. Then we end up blowing it, and then you take advantage of that and say "SEE! You're the problem here!". It's almost as if you're trying to wait for us to trip so you can point a finger at us. Why not be a more pleasant person when dialoging and then we won't be so tempted to come down on you so hard?

You are not really frustrated with me! You are frustrated that the Bible does not agree with you and your theology!

The unpleasantness you feel is your anger that the Holy Spirit is challenging you and your false doctrine!

You cannot take your anger out on God and the Holy Spirit so you lash out at me because I convey their message, not of my own, but from the Bible. The message to you is from the Bible and I only pointed it out!

Everyone here who sees this thread and reads these words can see what God is doing! God is challenging you to come to Him and read His Word and to ask Him for the Guidance of the Holy Spirit! Why do you fight against God's pricks?

[hch]

The fact that PAGANS used year/day cycles does not mean that God does! We do not get our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might but the Bible does not! In fact God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows they are not to copy the practices and the culture of the pagans around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis erroneous! You should really read the Bible instead of spending so much time in pagan sources!

The most important fact is that the year/day principle is not in the Bible. Don't bother to quote me Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special singular events that were specifically for that event alone. The Bible does not anywhere say anything about a broad principle of year/day!

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Truth is often counterfeited by satanic agencies to discredit truth.

A woman possessed of demons followed Paul declaring that he was a messenger of God. For what reason would a demon possessed woman emphatically declare that Paul was God's man? The people could hear Paul's preaching and see the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in his ministry. Thus the Holy Spirit was manifest in Paul and the people knew it. so this satanic agent by declaring the truth about Paul was sending the message that since she knew the truth about Paul, she must be of the same spirit. Thus through mixing truth with her error, Satan was attempting to impress upon the people that this demon possessed servant was speaking for God. The counterfeit was attaching itself to the Truth to change the people's focus from truth to error.

The examples cited of pagans teaching (mixing) truth with their errors in no way removes the truthfulness from the Truth. In the spiritual realm, the counterfeit cannot be true, it can only resemble truth as far as the Lord will allow.

Jesus ministered for 3.5 years, which are 1260-days.

The counterfeit Jesus (the papacy), ministered for 3.5 years as well with a day for a year. 3.5 years x 360-days = 1260-days. The papacy was supreme from 538 AD to 1798 when it received its deadly wound. Thus the 3.5-years (1260-days) of Christ's literal ministry on earth were counterfeited as 1260-years by the counterfeit Jesus.

But the counterfeit Jesus did not stop there, nor did the day for a year principle.

Jesus died on Friday (day 1), He rested in His grave Sabbath (day 2), and Christ arose on Sunday (day 3),

The papal counterfeit received its deadly wound in 1798 and Pope Pius VI died in captivity that year (day 1). There was no pope the following year, 1799 (day 2) while the papacy rested in its grave. And the papacy arose with the election of Pope Pius VII in 1800 (day 3).

Thus with the day for a year principle intact, alive, and well, the papacy counterfeited Christ's 1260-day ministry, His death on day 1, His resting in the grave on day 2, and His resurrection on day 3.

The fact that God used year/day cycles means that PAGANS counterfeit Truth by using it as well! We do get a confirmation of our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might not but the Bible does! In fact, God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows error counterfeits the practices and the culture of God's people around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis confirm that truth is counterfeited! What we read in the Bible is confirmed by pagan sources!

A most important fact is that the year/day principle is not only in the Bible, but it is markedly manifest through Satanic agencies counterfeiting Truth. Don't bother to try to explain away Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special and as the events that were specifically linked to them prove their validity, subsequent events prove that they are not alone. Since the Bible Truth is counterfeited using the day for a year principle, we can be assured that the True principle of year/day will prevail long after its critics are dead and gone!

I thank God that I understand the Truth about the Day/year Principle!

[hch]

>>Daniel's visions have never been sealed from understanding ....<<

Then, why did Gd seal the book? I disagree with and would amend the “never been sealed from understanding” qualifying it with – in large measure ‘understanding’ was given; however, the entirety of the visions were given without anyone’s complete understanding, which was to be remedied in the “time of the end”.

>>...in fact he was given understanding directly with each [which any can read today]<<

True, in part.

>>It is the future events of the visions that have been sealed [delayed] .... until the time of the end still pending .... not the understanding of these things [Revelation 5:1-10] .... the things hereafter [Revelation 4:1]<<

The text reads cepher/book was sealed – not “future events...”.

>>One can understand .... the events involved have just not yet come to pass<<

/ Why then haven’t the great Empires of the world these past two millennia formed a part of the image of Daniel 2?

/ Why did Gd utilize the goat to signify Greece?—and the Ram to signify Persia? Those are Zodiacal signs – complementing the beliefs of the two peoples...

/ Why would Gd reprise the four kingdoms of chapter 2 with the four beasts “which came up out of the sea” – segueing to four kings [which] “shall arise out of the earth”?

You take my meaning...

The commands in Daniel were to 1) shut-up, 2) close-up, and 3) seal the book.

The sealing process is linked to the fulfillment of the prophecies. Each time a kingdom did away with its successor, the transition confirmed (sealed) the authenticity of the word of God through Daniel.

But sealing the validity of God's word is not the same as 1) shutting-up, 2) closing-up, and 3) sealing the book until the time of the end.

Knowing the 4-kingdoms that sealed the authenticity of Daniel's prophecy before the endtime meaning was unsealed, is not the same as understanding what was unsealed after 1798-1844 and beyond.

[hch]

Just one small question, what makes the 70th week 70 if it doesn't start when the 69th week ends? ie 68,69,70. If the week following the 69th week was not the 70th then how could you call a week hundreds of years in the future the 70th week?

You can only delay events not numerical sequence.

Great point! so week 7,321 can't sequentially be week 69,...70. Thanks for sharing. It is one of those things that everybody knows, but it gets off the radar when facts are flying fast and furious.

[hch]

So you are saying that the entire book of Daniel from chapter 1 to chapter 12 was sealed in the forth century BCE, that is very hard for me to accept, the prophecy of Daniel 9 had a beginning and ending before the "time of the end". It would be hard to prove that God was speaking of the whole book of Daniel.

If God was not speaking of the WHOLE BOOK OF DANIEL why would He say SEAL THE BOOK?

The problem is that because many think that we understand the book of Daniel, it is assumed that the meaning understood in the 2nd century AD and confirmed by Luther and Newton in the 15 & 1600's was not closed up. The historical facts sealing the book of Daniel are confused with the meaning that is to be unsealed in the endtime.

Since Daniel was fulfilled, it is assumed that his endtime meaning was understood before prophecy met its final fulfillment.

In the endtime Daniel 9 had a complete and final fulfillment. A decree went forth to rebuild Jerusalem.

Da 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

to restore <07725> (8687) "to cause to return,"

and to build <01129> (8800) "rebuild 1a2) to build a house (ie, establish a family)"

Jerusalem <03389> "Jerusalem =" teaching of peace""

Da 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to cause to return and to establish a family teaching of peace unto the anointed ruler shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

From the teaching of peace to the anointing of the ruler...

the endtime counterfeit prince of the covenant was anointed on the very day prophesied...

he failed as predicted...

he confirmed the covenant for 1 week (7days) with many...

in the midst of the week, he set up the abomination that makes desolate...

by doing away with the sacrifice and the oblation...

From the day of the prince's failure; 1290-days later, the continual was done away...

and 45-days later, the blessing was received by those that understood that God's word is sure and what He has foretold has come to pass...

and it has been almost 2300-days since the 1335-days ended...

So as I read it: we have reached 6,000-years since creation +/-, we are in the time of trouble spoken of by Daniel the prophet that is to progressively get worse, the sealing time is almost complete and the final events will be rapid ones.

The last "king from the earth" is in office and on his watch, America will pick up the persecution of God's people that the papacy was forced to cease. And the last head of the papal beast in Revelation 13 is in office and is in his 7th year, which is the # of completeness. Then Satan impersonating John-Paul II will manifest himself.

But alas, those that should be able to speak intelligently regarding Bible prophecy as it impacts the endtime, are so focused on the history that seals the prophecies that they do not have a clue that their house is to be left unto them desolate soon and very soon. As a thief in the night, Christ will come and the poor virgins will gasp, "Lord we knew you were coming, but we did not know it would be so soon!"

And Jesus will ask why they kept their money in retirement funds and investments that became worthless when they could have fed the hungry, clothed the naked, shared the gospel, and helped with the harvesting? They will say that they thought that they were being good stewards, by gathering up and growing their resources to return it to Him with increase. Yes their talents of gold and silver and precious things will declare that they were good stewards of earthly wealth, while they let the precious souls that they could have helped starve to death for want. No No a thousand times NO! Jesus will send them away with tears in His voice, because He sought His own and those that professed to love Him did not even care if their brothers and sisters perished as long as their own accounts looked like they had a positive cash flow.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

[hch]

"The Almighty comes October 8". The 1335 days start near the end of June or early part of July, if my expectations are correct.

Anyone who attempts to set a date for Christ's Advent will get it wrong because they will set it too far in the future or He will cut the time short in righteousness.

But knowing that Christ's Advent is even at the door, we should live like our lives depended on getting right with God and sharing the gospel with others.

What is the GREAT commandment? And HOW is the second like the first?

Time will never be an issue again, but knowing the time of our visitation will spare us from a world of needless heartache. The Third Angel's Message is stronger than time, but knowing that it is time for those things that he declared to go forth in power is more of an assurance that when the beast makes his mark supreme,it is what it is. Not knowing who the beast is or that his manipulation of buying and selling is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy only places would-be saints on a spiritual disadvantage.

If you don't know who the beast is...

if you don't know that his mark regulates buying and selling

you won't see a danger in taking the mark

unless you see the link to the Sabbath.

But alas when the unknown beast implements his mark and it is not linked to the Sabbath, Sabbath keepers will convince themselves that it cannot be the Mark of the Beast and they will gladly accept what they should flee.

Then when the time of Jacob's trouble is here and the benign commands to take the mark of the beast are linked to the Sabbath issue, those foolish saints that did not know who was who or the time of their visitation will not be able to undo the evil that they have done. Too late! Then Satan gloats -Got Cha!

[Gerr]

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Forty days I assign you, a day for each year.

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Eze 4:6). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: miz3

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Forty days I assign you, a day for each year.

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Eze 4:6). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

amen

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The fact that PAGANS used year/day cycles does not mean that God does! We do not get our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might but the Bible does not! In fact God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows they are not to copy the practices and the culture of the pagans around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis erroneous! You should really read the Bible instead of spending so much time in pagan sources!

The most important fact is that the year/day principle is not in the Bible. Don't bother to quote me Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special singular events that were specifically for that event alone. The Bible does not anywhere say anything about a broad principle of year/day!

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Truth is often counterfeited by satanic agencies to discredit truth.

A woman possessed of demons followed Paul declaring that he was a messenger of God. For what reason would a demon possessed woman emphatically declare that Paul was God's man? The people could hear Paul's preaching and see the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in his ministry. Thus the Holy Spirit was manifest in Paul and the people knew it. so this satanic agent by declaring the truth about Paul was sending the message that since she knew the truth about Paul, she must be of the same spirit. Thus through mixing truth with her error, Satan was attempting to impress upon the people that this demon possessed servant was speaking for God. The counterfeit was attaching itself to the Truth to change the people's focus from truth to error.

The examples cited of pagans teaching (mixing) truth with their errors in no way removes the truthfulness from the Truth. In the spiritual realm, the counterfeit cannot be true, it can only resemble truth as far as the Lord will allow.

Jesus ministered for 3.5 years, which are 1260-days.

The counterfeit Jesus (the papacy), ministered for 3.5 years as well with a day for a year. 3.5 years x 360-days = 1260-days. The papacy was supreme from 538 AD to 1798 when it received its deadly wound. Thus the 3.5-years (1260-days) of Christ's literal ministry on earth were counterfeited as 1260-years by the counterfeit Jesus.

But the counterfeit Jesus did not stop there, nor did the day for a year principle.

Jesus died on Friday (day 1), He rested in His grave Sabbath (day 2), and Christ arose on Sunday (day 3),

The papal counterfeit received its deadly wound in 1798 and Pope Pius VI died in captivity that year (day 1). There was no pope the following year, 1799 (day 2) while the papacy rested in its grave. And the papacy arose with the election of Pope Pius VII in 1800 (day 3).

Thus with the day for a year principle intact, alive, and well, the papacy counterfeited Christ's 1260-day ministry, His death on day 1, His resting in the grave on day 2, and His resurrection on day 3.

The fact that God used year/day cycles means that PAGANS counterfeit Truth by using it as well! We do get a confirmation of our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might not but the Bible does! In fact, God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows error counterfeits the practices and the culture of God's people around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis confirm that truth is counterfeited! What we read in the Bible is confirmed by pagan sources!

A most important fact is that the year/day principle is not only in the Bible, but it is markedly manifest through Satanic agencies counterfeiting Truth. Don't bother to try to explain away Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special and as the events that were specifically linked to them prove their validity, subsequent events prove that they are not alone. Since the Bible Truth is counterfeited using the day for a year principle, we can be assured that the True principle of year/day will prevail long after its critics are dead and gone!

I thank God that I understand the Truth about the Day/year Principle!

What actually happened in 538 that made the Papacy the big kahuna?

What actually happened in 1798 that "wounded" the Papacy?

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Forty days I assign you, a day for each year.

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Eze 4:6). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

The Bible in this text is making a specific case. It is not making a general principle. There is no General Principle of year/day in this passage.

It was to applied ONLY TO THIS CASE!

This is a no brainer!

[Lysimachus]

Are you getting indigestion miz3? The day-year just came smashing through your window pretty hard. It's tough medicine, but you have to swallow it! :)