jasd Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Quote: Quote:Lysimachus >>The 70 weeks are "divided" from the 2300. In other words, divided from a larger number. We have "decreed", which also means "portioned out".<< Quote: Quote:jasdRotherham got it right... “Rotherham in his Emphasized Bible stresses the meaning "divide." He then proceeds to show that the seventy-week period was divided into seven weeks, sixty-two weeks, and one week.” >>No one is disputing this. The 70 week period was divided into periods to mark off various fulfillments of the prophecy. But the point is that all of those periods are part of a whole. [ed.jasd]<< You would have Daniel 9:24 read, as follows...? Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are “cut off” upon thy people and upon thy holy city, ... Linguistically stilted and corrupt, yes?—in fact, nonsensical. I credit Gabriel better... >>You can't take part of it and attach it way down at the end of history, over 2000 years from the end of the 69th week. There's no biblical, exegetical justification for doing that.<< The predicating subject, “Israel, all Israel” makes it an exegetical necessity; otherwise, it must be shown where/when “Israel, all Israel” was anywhere in view during the SDA understanding of the seventy-weeks prophecy; that is, from 457 BC to AD 34... It is impossible, as the vast majority of the COI were in their dispersion. The 457 BC to AD 34 termini can only show some Jews in view. Moreover, the antecedent of Daniel 9:27, being who he is, informs us that the last week of the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled... >>The first seven weeks (or 49 years) end with the completion of the rebuilding of Jerusalem.<< Okay. >>The next sixty-two weeks end at the baptism of Christ, in 27 AD.<< But that requires one to play loose with the specificity of text. One cannot, in all honesty, apply the terminus a quo at 457 BC. The facts of history and of text will not allow that. It is only the arrogance of early expositors presuming against the declarative word of Gd – that leaves certain .orgs with the belief that 457 BC is indeed legitimate. >>The last week ends at the stoning of Stephen when the gospel goes to the Gentiles, in 34 AD. Christ died in the middle of that last week, in 31 AD. His death did away with all of the sacrifices and the earthly sanctuary services.<< Again, that supposition requires a false date and dismissal of the latter clause of Daniel 9:26 as the linguistic antecedent for the last week per Daniel 9:27. >>NOTICE THAT NONE OF THE ABOVE IS EVIDENCE THAT THE SEVENTY WEEKS WERE NOT CUT OFF FROM THE 2300 DAYS OF DANIEL 8: 14.<< Wm Miller was wrong on too many points of hermeneutics – to continue building upon that foundation. >>The book of Daniel contains much internal evidence that those 490 years are cut off from the longer prophetic period.<< Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are “cut off” upon thy people and upon thy holy city, ... The grammar is abominable. >>See post #464313 for some of the evidence.<< Don’t know where that is... Quote
jasd Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Quote: The verb "cut off." The verb used by Gabriel in his first statement about the 70 weeks is a passive (Niphal) form of the root hatak (seventy weeks are determined upon thy people"). This root means either "to cut off" or "to determine, decree." Because this is the only passage in the OT where the word occurs, its meaning here has been disputed. [...] Its apparent meaning emphasizes the idea that the 70 weeks were understood to be cut off from the 2300 days mentioned in the preceding prophecy. (70 Weeks, Leviticus, Nature of Prophecy, The Prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 William H. Shea, p. 107) [ed.jasd] Oh, okay – BRI Shea, eh? I’m uncomfortable with “to cut off” and “to determine, decree” proffered as passive. Am I right to be uncomfortable? Ought not the passive voice for “to cut off” or “to determine, decree” – rather “to (be) cut off” or “to (be) determined, to (be) dcreed”? You tell me. Long time since grammar school for me... Quote
jasd Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Quote: Quote:Lysimachus >>LeRoy Froom lays the DEATH KNELL against those who think this was an Adventist invention. Expositors the world-over understood this basic principle.<< Quote: Quote:jasdFroom? wouldn't that be like, self-attestation? >>His volumes on this topic are highly regarded by non-SDA historians and Bible scholars. Froom's documentation is indisputable on this topic.<< “Le Roy Edwin Froom (1890–1974) was a Seventh-day Adventist minister and historian. Froom was the first associate secretary of the General Conference ...” I mean, seriously, could he have forwarded a 445 BC date for Daniel 9:25 – and still survived, let alone risen, in the .Org? Should he have endorsed the “cut-off” interpretation of chathak and should he have endorsed 457 BC as the terminus a quo for the Seventy-weeks – then I, rightfully, question and subsequently reject his testimony as being biased... >>It sounds like you are rejecting Froom's books without having studied them, simply because he was a Seventh-day Adventist.<< I admit to an unfamiliarity with Froom’s books; however, I am familiar with his position re the Seventy-weeks. >>If that is the case, it says more about you than it does about history or Froom's books.<< Thank-you, for I’ve, hopefully so, tried to make my position so transparent as to contraindicate such as Froom’s. “Rabbi Louis Finklestein of the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, was selected by the Kehillas (Jewish Communities) of the World as one of the 120 top Jews who best represented “a lamp of Judaism” to the world. In a letter to Dr. L. E. Froom, dated Feb. 20, 1939, Finklestein readily admitted, “The present Jewish calendar was fixed in the fourth century.” Maimonides and most other Jewish chronologers agree that the modern Jewish calendar is based upon the “mean motions of the sun and moon, the true [calendar] having been set aside.” ” [ed.jasd] (note: Dr L. E. Froom) –jasd What has the eminent Froom done with the above bit of enlightenment? So, tell me again – how credible a man is – who has skin in the game... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 miz3: REJECT. IGNORE. As the Holy Spirit works in us humans it is then and only then that we are able to see that we need to "REPENT", "CONFESS", "CHANGE", "SEEK", "OBEY", "TRUST", "RECONCILE", "ASK God for power to overcome sin", "to actually feel true sorrow for sinning against God, to have LOVE for God and LOVE FOR OTHER HUMANS, to gain Victory over sin, to ask God for Truth when you read His Word, etc. etc. Like the paralytic at the Pool of Bethsaida the Holy Spirit injects God's Power in us to accomplish His Commands. Unfortunately doubts among other things creep in and the opportunity gets lost. However, God in His Infinite Mercy gives us opportunity after opportunity to be healed. This process is a step by step process and does not occur in the same sequence for other humans as it occurs for you. Those as ALL choices made by the will!!! You cannot "reject, ignore, repent, confess, change, seek, obey," etc. without making a choice. Quote
Truth Files Posted July 31, 2011 Author Posted July 31, 2011 "The facts of history and of text will not allow that. It is only the arrogance of early expositors presuming against the declarative word of Gd – that leaves certain .orgs with the belief that 457 BC is indeed legitimate." >Here is what Miller did: >He looked for a way to fabricate 1844 as the time for the second coming .... this kind of thing has been done many times by those who want to use sensationalism for the purpose of gaining attention and gathering a following [and the Lord has said that no one can know the time .... yet His words are ignored by those who do it] [Acts 1:6-7] .... when one is drawn by the falsehoods of those who do these things, they are acting in ignorance and they should be more suspect of just what is going on in the open .... and to look behind the curtain Miller then back loaded his 1844 datings by grabbing an arbitrary dating of the decree to return and build the city of Jerusalem .... another selected and false variable in his calculation This was done on the fabricated and incorrect interpretation of the 2300 evening and morning time lapse given in Daniel 8:14 and 8:26 One needs to know that "days" in Daniel 8:14 is not the Hebrew word for a "day" [look this up in a good concordance], but for "evening an morning" .... 2300 evenings and mornings .... 1150 24 hour days [Miller most likely did not know this fact, but it does not make any difference .... the man did what he did] ..... even to the extent of suggesting that the 2300 evenings and mornings were 2300 years SDA theology applies their "year for a day" precept to Daniel 8:14, claiming the 2300 days are equivalent to 2300 years However, the Hebrew word for "day" [yowm, or yamim] does not appear in the verse The word "days" in Daniel 8:14 [[ereb [evening] boqer [morning]] literally means evenings and mornings [1150 days] since the context of the verse itself is talking about the daily sacrifices in the temple which took place every morning and evening What the members of the SDA need to be aware of is this: Those who manipulate the prophetic scriptures for the purpose of attracting attention and gaining a following are not to be trusted .... and even more so when others associated with Miller then proceeded to create more fabrications for the same purpose to cover Miller's failed datings [EGW claimed inspiration from God was given to prove that Miller was in fact correct] .... and here is the bottom line: Is the SDA member taught that one cannot know of the assurance of their own salvation, but must adhere to and follow the selected edicts and legalisms of the organization? Yes they are, and I have to say that this position is in direct contradiction to the Lord's own word on the matter [John 3:16-18] .... something very wrong is lurking in the teaching Religions that are built upon obvious false interpretations of the prophetic scriptures carry attached dogmas that can undermine one's own salvation if followed Note: if one wants to know the truth about the time lapse set out for Israel [not the church] one must know that 490 prophetic years [of 360 days each] have been decreed of which 483 years have transpired .... 7 years are still pending .... but the Lord has not revealed the beginning of this future dating just as He has said .... He has purposely delayed His coming visitation, and He will not execute it until He is ready [Romans 11:25-36; 2Peter 3:8-10] Quote Stephen - Author - Truth Files
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Miller was in now way wanting to attract attention or have a following. For years he was reluctant to even share his information outside of a small circle of friends. He was compelled to go forward with his message, which brought him a lot of pain and suffering. Hardly a man looking for followers. He never set or encouraged anyone else to set a date beyond 1844. Of course his calculations are correct, as to the date. As to what it all meant, he was never sure. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 ... Just like a thorn bush cannot produce grapes, so bad humans cannot produce good works. Originally Posted By: John3:17 Is it your contention that Jesus taught that bad humans have no choice but to go on being bad humans? Originally Posted By: miz3 YES! But the Bible doesn't teach that. Here's the Bible's teaching: Quote: Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live? Quote: Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call. 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls. There were two bad theives on the cross with Christ, but only one repented and believed in Jesus. John the Baptizer didn't teach that bad people have to keep on being bad, and neither did Jesus or Paul. If people have no choice but to go on being evil and practicing sin, why does God punish them? Does God hold people responsible, and punish people, for things beyond their control and about which they have no choice whatsoever? I know you've answered yes to this question before, but that is a doctrine of the devil. It doesn't come from God. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 He never set or encouraged anyone else to set a date beyond 1844. Of course his calculations are correct, as to the date. As to what it all meant, he was never sure. Actually, Miller himsself didn't set the Oct. 22 date. He didn't accept that date until the morning of Oct. 21. He always preached that Christ would come to purify the earth "about 1843-1844." His main error, of course, was in understanding the earth to be the sanctuary. At the time he was preaching there was only one sanctuary, and that was the sanctuary in heaven. But what would have happened if the message of the Millerites had been that Christ was going to enter the Most Holy in heaven and begin the judgment of the dead? Would anyone have paid attention? The answer is obvious. Such a message wouldn't have been heard. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 As the Holy Spirit works in us humans it is then and only then that we are able to see that we need to "repent", "confess", "change", "seek", "obey", "trust", "reconcile", "ask God for power to overcome sin", "to actually feel true sorrow for sinning against God, to have LOVE for God and LOVE FOR OTHER HUMANS, to gain Victory over sin, to ask God for Truth when you read His Word, etc. etc. Like the paralytic at the Pool of Bethsaida the Holy Spirit injects God's Power in us to accomplish His Commands. Unfortunately doubts among other things creep in and the opportunity gets lost. However, God in His Infinite Mercy gives us opportunity after opportunity to be healed. This process is a step by step process and does not occur in the same sequence for other humans as it occurs for you. It is only possible to for you to desire God because of the Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit puts that desire in you without your permission. Unfortunately many humans REJECT the Work of the Holy Spirit and actively work against the Holy Spirit. Eventually the Holy Spirit has been REJECTED TO POINT THAT IT GIVES UP WORKING IN THE HUMAN ENTITY! When that happens you are lost forever! Only God decides when that point is reached! The Holy Spirit puts that desire in the hearts and mind of everyone at some time in their lives. But only some accept the Holy Spirit and others reject it. Everyone has a choice whether to accept God or reject Him. But you are saying people have no choice. That is false. Your own argument shows that people do have a choice whether to accept the Holy Spirit or reject Him. God doesn't force people to accept Him. That's a choice people make themselves. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Truth Files Posted July 31, 2011 Author Posted July 31, 2011 "But what would have happened if the message of the Millerites had been that Christ was going to enter the Most Holy in heaven and begin the judgment of the dead? Would anyone have paid attention?" >strange indeed to say .... so make up something more spectacular? >And after no results .... re-invent the story? >We need to pay attention to the Lord's words in the Bible and not extra-biblical fabrications .... unwarranted predictions and date setting .... not there .... investigative judgment stuff based upon Daniel 8 and 2300 years .... not there Quote Stephen - Author - Truth Files
miz3 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 miz3: REJECT. IGNORE. As the Holy Spirit works in us humans it is then and only then that we are able to see that we need to "REPENT", "CONFESS", "CHANGE", "SEEK", "OBEY", "TRUST", "RECONCILE", "ASK God for power to overcome sin", "to actually feel true sorrow for sinning against God, to have LOVE for God and LOVE FOR OTHER HUMANS, to gain Victory over sin, to ask God for Truth when you read His Word, etc. etc. Like the paralytic at the Pool of Bethsaida the Holy Spirit injects God's Power in us to accomplish His Commands. Unfortunately doubts among other things creep in and the opportunity gets lost. However, God in His Infinite Mercy gives us opportunity after opportunity to be healed. This process is a step by step process and does not occur in the same sequence for other humans as it occurs for you. Those as ALL choices made by the will!!! You cannot "reject, ignore, repent, confess, change, seek, obey," etc. without making a choice. WRONG! The Bible does not teach that humans have something called the "will". That is an invention of human origin! NO CHOICE! The Bible as Matthew chapter seven points out we are "what they are, because of what they are"! That means we, humans, "do what we do because of what we are"! Thus, the Holy Spirit comes into us "TO CHANGE WHAT WE ARE"! Unless we REJECT the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit will continue to work. The Holy Spirit is very persistent and will keep pushing to break down any resistance! THE KEY POINT IS: THE HOLY SPIRIT'S WORK IN US IS TO CHANGE WHAT WE ARE! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 Those as ALL choices made by the will!!! You cannot "reject, ignore, repent, confess, change, seek, obey," etc. without making a choice. Originally Posted By: miz3 WRONG! The Bible does not teach that humans have something called the "will". That is an invention of human origin! NO CHOICE! The Bible does indeed teach that humans have a "will." You error, not knowing the Scriptures. As Gerry already posted these verses, you should be well aware of them: "And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, CHOOSE this day whom you will serve..." Josh 24:15 ESV. "If anyone’s WILL is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority." Jn 7:17 ESV Therefore people do have a choice. People do have a "will." But you are free to choose whether to accept this truth or reject it. It is your choice. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 THE KEY POINT IS: THE HOLY SPIRIT'S WORK IN US IS TO CHANGE WHAT WE ARE! And God doesn't compel anyone against their will to be saved. God takes no satisfaction from worship that people don't give willingly and by their own free choice. God isn't interested in having a bunch of robots in His kingdom. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 "But what would have happened if the message of the Millerites had been that Christ was going to enter the Most Holy in heaven and begin the judgment of the dead? Would anyone have paid attention?" >strange indeed to say .... so make up something more spectacular? They didn't "make up" something more spectacular any more than the disciples did when they believed and taught that Christ would be crowned king, when instead He died as a common criminal. Can't you see the parallel? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Lysimachus Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 >strange indeed to say .... so make up something more spectacular? Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Moderators Gerr Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 WRONG! Oh, because you say so? If a sinner can either repent or not, ignore or accept, reconcile or remain enemies, obey or disobey, what does that tell you. Having alternatives can only mean one has a CHOICE! You can ACCEPT or REJECT what I am telling you. That is YOUR CHOICE!!! Quote: The Bible does not teach that humans have something called the "will". That is an invention of human origin! NO CHOICE! "And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, CHOOSE this day whom you will serve..." Josh 24:15 ESV. "If anyone’s WILL is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority." Jn 7:17 ESV Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 Sad but true, I'm afraid, Lysimachus. All we can do is continue presenting the truth and praying that God will open people's eyes. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Truth Files Posted July 31, 2011 Author Posted July 31, 2011 "They didn't "make up" something more spectacular any more than the disciples did when they believed and taught that Christ would be crowned king, when instead He died as a common criminal. Can't you see the parallel?" >No comparison whatsoever .... the disciples did not make up anything .... William Miller did >Your are grasping John317 Quote Stephen - Author - Truth Files
Lysimachus Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 "They didn't "make up" something more spectacular any more than the disciples did when they believed and taught that Christ would be crowned king, when instead He died as a common criminal. Can't you see the parallel?" >No comparison whatsoever .... the disciples did not make up anything .... William Miller did >Your are grasping John317 William Miller did not make anything up. He simply shared what the Bible seemed to say. To him, the earth was the sanctuary, and the cleansing of it was the Second Coming by fire. That the earth was the sanctuary was along the lines of the traditional ideology of the day. He did not "make up" the date either. He saw that according to Scriptures, it commenced in 457 B.C. and terminated in 1843/44. And yes, John the Baptist and the Disciples all thought that Jesus was coming to setup an earthly kingdom and deliver the Jews from the Romans. They suffered deep disappointment. Does this make them false disciples? No it doesn't. John the Baptist knew that the 69 weeks were almost up. John the Baptist as well as many of his followers did not "make up" that the coming of the Messiah was soon to come at the end of the 69 weeks. But they were wrong on the NATURE of His coming! Likewise, William Miller knew that the 2300 days (expanded period of the 70 weeks) was to terminate in 1843/1844. Yet he, along with his followers, did not understand the NATURE of the "coming" that was to occur in 1844. He was not coming to the earth at the Second Coming, but he was "coming to the Ancient of Days!!" Who is the FATHER! Where Christ was to commence the Antitypical Day of Atonement as HIGH PRIEST in the MOST HOLY PLACE OF THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY!! And guess what Truth Files? Those who willfully refused to follow Jesus in 1844 by faith into the Most Holy Place were left IN DARKNESS as Satan breathed his miasma upon the fallen Protestant Churches. They chose to remain worshiping by Satan's throne. Not only that, because they refused to enter into the Most Holy Place where Jesus was at before the Ark of the Covenant which contains God's original Ten Commandments, they could not see the importance of God's law and keeping ALL TEN of God's Commandments. This is serious business Truth Files. If you could only see just how much light you are rejecting, and how thick the darkness is around you. But I pray to God that someday you will open your eyes to the truth, so that you might be saved. That the Lord will help you wake up to these precious gems for which you have willfully buried under the rug and refused to partake of. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
ClubV12 Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 The comparison seems to be quite logical, I'm not sure why your having trouble seeing it tf. The Jews were looking for a glorius coming of the saviour, crowned King and all that. All they got was a great disappointment. The people of 1844 were looking for a similar event, a glorious coming of the Lord, all they got was great disappointment. In both cases, this was the will of God, to test the faith of the true believers and seal the fate of those looking for an excuse to not believe. The disappointment did not shake out the faithful, it drove them to the word to search, study and increase their faith. In both cases, the faithful met with great ridicule and even feared for their lives. The similarities between these two events is profound. Quote
Moderators Kevin H Posted July 31, 2011 Moderators Posted July 31, 2011 Miz3: I'm sorry, but where on earth do you get this claim that there is no year day principle? I know that Desmond Ford said this but again he gave no proof. The book "Before Philosophy" by Heneri Frankfort and others who taught at the University of Chicago, copyright 1946 University of Chicago Press, says that the ancient world had cycles including the year-day cycle. The Baal religion is full of year-day references. Studies of ancient near eastern history, Egyptolog, Asseriology and other studies of the regon have the year day principle. Amos (I'll have to look up the texts) has the year-day principle (Talking about sacrfices that were given every so many years but they were being offered every so many days) other texts as well in the miner prophets. Scholars see how Matthew draws parrellels between Jesus and Moses, and saw Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness equvalent to Moses' 40 years in the wilderness. That's right, these come from archaeology, study of ancient literature and culture and Biblical Scholarship and not from the mind of Miz3, they are the pagan sources that we are not to consider and need to ignore these sources of evidence and listen to what Miz3 says. Quote
jasd Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 >>At the time he was preaching there was only one sanctuary, and that was the sanctuary in heaven.<< Ps 114:2 Judah was his sanctuary, [and] Israel his dominion. Quote
Lysimachus Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 >>At the time he was preaching there was only one sanctuary, and that was the sanctuary in heaven.<< Ps 114:2 Judah was his sanctuary, [and] Israel his dominion. Monkey wrench away from the issues. Psalms 114:2 is the Old Testament time frame where the Old Testament Sanctuary was in Judah and Jerusalem. But the earth is not the sanctuary. Miller was living in the New Testament era, where clearly Hebrews and Revelation pointed to the Heavenly Sanctuary. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
jasd Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 >>Wrong. The big controversy is within Christianity. Christianity's worst enemy is the False Prophet--the one who voices Dispensationalism. They place themselves in a far worse position in the eyes of God than were they simply Pagans, Atheists, or Muslims.<< The yin-yang of the Hermetic Dragon, yes? So, what does the above say of the Bereans?—or the parabolic mote?—or of calling wrong, right? Quote: Quote:LysimachusThey suffered deep disappointment. Does this make them false disciples? No it doesn't. Indeed not. They received correction; whereas, in 1844 AD – they ignored the plain face of reality check and became squiggly. That is not to say that no good thing came of squiggliness. Years post facto, my mother became an SDA – and is now in the fields of Paradise with loved ones. Even now – more than ever, in fact – she intercedes for me with Jesus Christ - as the righteous Xtian will be an Atonement for lost souls. If you can, wrap your minds around that, y’alls... Quote
jasd Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Ex 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him. Ex 4:25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast [it] at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband [art] thou to me. Not much room there for self-will, eh?—commit or die. Oh, okay – the ‘will’ manifests as ‘death avoidance’. On another note: some of you oughta just listen to yourselves – the hubris – sans even the leaven of humility. Pray for yeast spores! Quote
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