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Posted

Indeed not. They received correction; whereas, in 1844 AD – they ignored the plain face of reality check and became

squiggly.

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

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Posted

What is absent from the body, that is present with the Lord?

Posted

Quote:
Quote:John317

>>At the time he was preaching there was only one sanctuary, and that was the sanctuary in heaven.<<

Quote:
Quote:jasd

Ps 114:2 Judah was his sanctuary, [and] Israel his dominion.

>>Monkey wrench away from the issues. Psalms 114:2 is the Old Testament time frame where the Old Testament Sanctuary was in Judah and Jerusalem.<<

Ahh, now I see how all those ‘replacement theologists’ get it wrong.

>>But the earth is not the sanctuary.<<

Indeed not, re Daniel 8:14 - I’ve just presented Writ to show that Judah is Gd’s sanctuary.

>>Miller was living in the New Testament era,<<

Biblical fact: Wm Miller disregarded Gd’s injunction to seal the book of Daniel – until such and such times..., and further presumed – to exposit that which was sealed to the detriment of those who also, subsequently, also presumed upon Gd building upon Wm Miller’s foundation – in error.

>>...where clearly Hebrews and Revelation pointed to the Heavenly Sanctuary.<<

I suggest you reread, very carefully, the following – before you find that it is you who are “monkey-wrenching” Holy Writ.

“ “The Hebrew word that is usually translated cleansed or restored in this passage is nisdaq. The term or root from which this word was formed is the verb sadaq. "It occurs 22 times in the active form (qal), 5 times in the intensive (piel), 12 in the causative (hiphil), once in the reflexive (hithpael), and once in the passive (niphal). This last type is found in Daniel 8:14; hence the form nisdaq. This passive form of the root sadaq unfortunately is a hapax legomenon (a word which occurs only once in the Bible). This raises the question, How shall it be properly translated?" (Frank B. Holbrook, Editor, Symposium on Daniel, p. 479). This same source explains just how easily this is done:

"The Qal forms mean ‘to be in the right, be right, have a just case, be vindicated, be just, righteous.’ The intensive forms of the Piel mean ‘to declare someone to be right, to make someone appear righteous, innocent, to desire oneself just.’ The causative Hiphil forms mean ‘to give or bring justice, to declare righteous, to justify, vindicate.’ And finally, the one Hithpael form means, ‘to justify oneself’" (ibid), p. 452. On page 479:

"The causative form (hiphil) of sadaq will mean ‘cause to be right,’ ‘cause to be just.’ The reflexive form (hithpael) will mean ‘make oneself right,’ or ‘justify oneself.’ In the same way nisdaq is simply the passive of sadaq, and will have the meaning ‘be made right,’ ‘be made just,’ or the like." "This", they say, "would be the simplest and most straightforward translation, and is the one followed by most recent Bible translators." "They have followed the immediate, ordinary meaning of the word" (ibid), p. 479.

Some have in mind that "the basic meaning of sadaq is ‘just,’ ‘right,’ or some similar term" (p. 495). This kind of reasoning is somewhat oversimplified and misleading. "All lexicons agree in giving the meaning of the word as ‘to be just,’ ‘to be righteous.’ In 8:14 the word occurs in the Niphal form (the reflexive or passive), and would ordinarily be translated ‘be justified,’ or ‘be made righteous’” ” (Problems in Bible Translation, p. 175).

Posted

What is absent from the body, that is present with the Lord?

I just means we will be absent from this fleshly, mortal body, but we will be present with the Lord in our new, Glorified bodies.

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

Posted

I understand that and I don't wish to belabor the point; but who is the "we" that is absent from the body of flesh? Is it the inner man?

2 Corinthians 4:16 NAS

Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

Posted

>>Monkey wrench away from the issues. Psalms 114:2 is the Old Testament time frame where the Old Testament Sanctuary was in Judah and Jerusalem.<<

Ahh, now I see how all those ‘replacement theologists’ get it wrong.

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

Posted

Just an observation: The prophecy of Daniel 8 was not sealed up, it was the prophecy of Daniel 10-12.

Posted

Just an observation: The prophecy of Daniel 8 was not sealed up, it was the prophecy of Daniel 10-12.

Apparently, he thinks that "wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days." (8:26) is the same thing as "sealing"?

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

Posted

Quote:
Quote:jasd

Indeed not. They received correction; whereas, in 1844 AD – they ignored the plain face of reality check and became

squiggly.

>>The reality check was that Christ had entered the second phase of His ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary. This was not a "face saving" doctrine, but rather a TESTING doctrine. It tested them, and it's testing you. It's the truth. :)<<

Read and parse Daniel 8:14 – taking especial note of the verb stem for "cleansed". One simply cannot construe it as referring to a thing – such as a ‘heavenly sanctuary’.

Quote:
Quote:jasd

That is not to say that no good thing came of squiggliness. Years post facto, my mother became an SDA – and is now in the fields of Paradise with loved ones. Even now – more than ever, in fact – she intercedes for me with Jesus Christ - as the righteous Xtian

will be an Atonement for lost souls.

If you can, wrap your minds around that, y’alls...

>>Nobody since Christ's ascension has gone to Paradise or heaven.<<

So, you’re saying that Enoch, Moses, and Elijah all preceded Jesus Christ’s ascension?

>>I've got good news. Your mom is sleeping in the grave,<<

Thanks, for the kind words; however, ain not... She was cremated. I couldn’t stand the thought of putting someone I loved into the grave where corruption and worms consume...

>>...and she doesn't have to witness your suffering. She doesn't have to witness you dying.<<

Who said anything of “witnessing” – anything?

>>The time that elapses between the moment she closed her eyes and the time she opens them at the resurrection will seem but a split second. When a person dies, it's like blinking their eyes.<<

We don’t know that from nuthin’.

>>They die, they resurrect. They will come up either in the First Resurrection at the Second Coming, or the Second Resurrection at the end of the Millennium. Assuming a person dies in their grave 5,000 years ago, and wakes up 5,000 years later, the amount of time in the grave will feel no different to that person than it did to the person who was in the grave for only 1 day. :)<<

So, it’s kinda like – quantum theology, yes? bwink

>>Now we see why it is exactly: Absent from the body, Present with the Lord. :) Time means nothing to a dead person.<<

Not wishing to bog this thread down with a complete Bible study on the matter – who? according to the red letters of Holy Writ, said, “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.” (Jn 11:26)

Note: the conjunctive “and” and the Greek emphatic double negative “shall never”. Jesus Christ could not have been more forthcoming re the state of the dead “who liveth and believeth” in Him.

Posted

Daniel 8:26 "but keep the vision secret". Daniel 12:8,9 "...so I said "My Lord, what will be the outcome..." these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.

In chapter 8 Daniel is told to keep the words secret, in Daniel 12 he asks for understanding of what he has just heard and seen, he is told that the words are concealed (from him) and sealed up (like the seven thunders in Revelation 10:4).

Clearly Jesus knew that William Miller et al would use the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy as they did, because He prophesied about the great dissapointment.

Matthew 25:1"Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.2"Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.3"For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,4but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.5"Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.

The bridesmaids took their lamps (light of prophecy, Daniel 8) and went out to meet the Bridegroom, but He did not come. All ten bridesmaids continued waiting and all ten fell asleep waiting. This chapter starts with the words "the kingdom of heaven" and the sanctuary operates on behalf of the kingdom of heaven; therefore the sanctuary was "put back in it's original condition", operating on behalf of the kingdom. There was not a kingdom of heaven "in the world, but not of the world" until 1844. From 33 CE (end of the 70 sevens) the people of God were "in the wilderness" (see Revelation 12:14)

Posted

>>The reality check was that Christ had entered the second phase of His ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary. This was not a "face saving" doctrine, but rather a TESTING doctrine. It tested them, and it's testing you. It's the truth. :)<<

Read and parse Daniel 8:14 – taking especial note of the verb stem for "cleansed". One simply cannot construe it as referring to a thing – such as a ‘heavenly sanctuary’.

8:10 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

8:11 Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [tamid] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Every other place where this Hebrew word for "place" is used, it is always in context of God's dwelling place in heaven.

8:12 And an host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered.

The Little Horn here is attacking vertical at this point. It's attacking the "host of heaven", and the "place" of His Sanctuary, where the Prince of Host is, our High Priest.

8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The same expression "trodden under foot" is used by Paul in Hebrews 10:29 - "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

There is no "literal earthly sanctuary" in the equation here. It's all spiritual. The focus is an attack on Christ's High Priestly ministry in heaven.

The "sanctuary" in verse 14 is the same sanctuary that needs to be cleansed in verses 10-13. But in verse 14, the Hebrew word, Qodesh, is refering to the inner shrine of the sanctuary, the Most Holy.

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

Posted

I understand that the fulfillment of this prophecy is in the future.

Posted

"This is serious business Truth Files. If you could only see just how much light you are rejecting, and how thick the darkness is around you."

>What is serious is SDA theology seriously flawed

>As I review this forum I see it everywhere .... within and without of the SDA folly

>EGW and her associates were the "restorationists" of their day, those who came to turn the flock to the "truth" .... of their branding

>There have been many since who have made the same claims .... pied pipers who have the "light", the purported visions, the out of body experiences, etc. ..... all of this is fakery and grandstanding for the purpose of leading the unaware off of the path

>The list is a long one and all involved turn out the exact same parallel claims and experiences giving false predictions which fail and building fables of men which induce those with itching ears to follow

Here are a few:

>Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, William Branham, George Warnock, Herbert W. Armstrong, .... and more recently: The Kansas City prophets, Toronto Blessings movement, the Later Day Apostles and prophets restoration movements, Arnold Murray, Paul Cain, John Wimber, Peter Wagner, Rick Joyner, Mike Bickel, David Eells, Todd Bentley ...

>All coming in the name of Jesus Christ .... deceiving and being deceived .... claiming that they have the "hidden" manna, the "new light", and then steering the unlearned and unwary off of the road .... all claiming to be the Lord's end time prophets, apostles, etc. [and stealing Israel's position as the apple of God's eye, and of His future intents with His national people] .... all of the above do this thing

>Look them up on the Internet and see the same pattern and telltale characteristic behavior being sold as "truth" along with the brazen expression of individual propriety

>Miller, EGW, and associates have done the same .... with consequences

>The Lord's Word is already written [finished] and His truth is preserved for those who will seek it and stick to it .... any other gospel should be suspect of manipulation and related deceptions [Revelation 22:18-19]

Stephen - Author - Truth Files

Posted

"I understand that the fulfillment of this prophecy is in the future"

>Your understanding is correct .... all of it

Stephen - Author - Truth Files

Posted

"I understand that the fulfillment of this prophecy is in the future"

>Your understanding is correct .... all of it

That's right. Even the 7 Churches are in the future. All of them.

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

Posted

Quote:
Quote:Lycimachus

>>Monkey wrench away from the issues. Psalms 114:2 is the Old Testament time frame where the Old Testament Sanctuary was in Judah and Jerusalem.<<

Quote:
Quote:jasd

Ahh, now I see how all those ‘replacement theologists’ get it wrong.

>>No replacement theology here.<<

I took the above as indicative of how “replacement theologists” demarc too generally between the OT and NT – ending up totally discombobulated.

>>Replacement theology teaches that Israel was replaced.<<

Which – the careful expositor of Writ denies. The COI is explicitly stated as being that which receives engrafted branches. No COI olive tree, no engraftation – OT or NT.

>>True Adventism teaches that the Jewish leaders, the vinedressers for the House of Israel, the vineyard, were replaced by the Church to care for the Vineyard, the House of Israel. Israel has not been replaced, it's vinedressers have--despite how some Adventists end up inadvertently using wrong terminology.<<

Except for the “vinedressers [dressing] for the House of Israel” – I agree in part. The House of Israel had long gone into captivity and been dispersed.

Quote:
Quote:Lysimachus

>>Miller was living in the New Testament era,<<

Quote:
Quote:jasd

Biblical fact: Wm Miller disregarded Gd’s injunction to seal the book of Daniel – until such and such times..., and further presumed – to exposit that which was sealed to the detriment of those who also, subsequently, also presumed upon Gd building upon Wm Miller’s foundation – in error.

>>No William Miller did not disregard God's injunction to seal the book of Daniel. You are confused on what "sealing" means.<<

What!?—now “sealing” does not mean sealing? Like, depends on what ‘is’ is, eh?

>>Allow me to help you out of your confusion:<<

Okay, the blind leading the blind, yes?

>>First off, the sealing of the book simply means that the nature of the 2300 day termination would not be understood until "the time of the end". The unsealing of this book is when the Adventists understood the nature of what took place in 1844.<<

Gimme a break. They, by and large, were still misunderstanding the Fourth Commandment by hitching their horses to wagons or otherwise riding them upon the Sabbath; knew nuthin’ from germ theory; and lived, breathed, and died within a 20-mile radius of their place of birth.

Definitely not the ‘Time of the End’.

>>Secondly, William Miller was living in the "time of the end", so he had ever right to unseal it.<<

Read above. You are living in the time of the end and you ought to be revealing rightly exposited Writ instead of repeating – that which was wrested before the unsealing of the book of Daniel.

>>The time of the end commenced in 1798, at the end of the 1260 years.<<

1798? Okay, so mebbe some peoples traveled “to” at the time – but hardly “to and fro” – let alone “running to and fro”. So, Daniel’s 1260 days bear no relevance to those same time references in the book of Revelation?

And knowledge being increased?—though somewhat, yet hardly.

Quote:
Quote:Lysimachus

>>...where clearly Hebrews and Revelation pointed to the Heavenly Sanctuary.<<

Quote:
Quote:jasd

I suggest you reread, very carefully, the following – before you find that it is you who are “monkey-wrenching”.

Quote:
“ “The Hebrew word that is usually translated cleansed or restored in this passage is nisdaq. The term or root from which this word was formed is the verb sadaq. "It occurs 22 times in the active form (qal), 5 times in the intensive (piel), 12 in the causative (hiphil), once in the reflexive (hithpael), and once in the passive (niphal). This last type is found in Daniel 8:14; hence the form nisdaq. This passive form of the root sadaq unfortunately is a hapax legomenon (a word which occurs only once in the Bible). This raises the question, How shall it be properly translated?" (Frank B. Holbrook, Editor, Symposium on Daniel, p. 479). This same source explains just how easily this is done:

"The Qal forms mean ‘to be in the right, be right, have a just case, be vindicated, be just, righteous.’ The intensive forms of the Piel mean ‘to declare someone to be right, to make someone appear righteous, innocent, to desire oneself just.’ The causative Hiphil forms mean ‘to give or bring justice, to declare righteous, to justify, vindicate.’ And finally, the one Hithpael form means, ‘to justify oneself’" (ibid), p. 452. On page 479:

"The causative form (hiphil) of sadaq will mean ‘cause to be right,’ ‘cause to be just.’ The reflexive form (hithpael) will mean ‘make oneself right,’ or ‘justify oneself.’ In the same way nisdaq is simply the passive of sadaq, and will have the meaning ‘be made right,’ ‘be made just,’ or the like." "This", they say, "would be the simplest and most straightforward translation, and is the one followed by most recent Bible translators." "They have followed the immediate, ordinary meaning of the word" (ibid), p. 479.

Some have in mind that "the basic meaning of sadaq is ‘just,’ ‘right,’ or some similar term" (p. 495). This kind of reasoning is somewhat oversimplified and misleading. "All lexicons agree in giving the meaning of the word as ‘to be just,’ ‘to be righteous.’ In 8:14 the word occurs in the Niphal form (the reflexive or passive), and would ordinarily be translated ‘be justified,’ or ‘be made righteous’” ” (Problems in Bible Translation, p. 175).

>>No clue what your point is. When did I deny that sadaq means to be made right, justify, made righteous, etc.?<<

You may not have; however, by bruiting the SDA position on Daniel 8:14 you give your voice to their dogma re the 2300 days, which treats the “cleansing” of the Heavenly Sanctuary in an active voice.

By that which you forward – how is that cleansing of the sanctuary in heaven ‘jusitified’ in the reflexive or passive sense required by the Hebrew verb stem?—or why is it that a sanctuary in heaven needs to be made righteous?

>> Apparently, he thinks that "wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days." (8:26) is the same thing as "sealing"?<<

If, according to chapter 12 verse 4, the book is sealed – one can only conclude that chapter 8 is sealed.

Posted

jasd, my friend, you don't want me to answer that; about the olive tree.

Keep up the good fight.

Posted

Daniel's visions have never been sealed from understanding .... in fact he was given understanding directly with each [which any can read today]

It is the future events of the visions that have been sealed [delayed] .... until the time of the end still pending .... not the understanding of these things [Revelation 5:1-10] .... the things hereafter [Revelation 4:1]

One can understand .... the events involved have just not yet come to pass

Stephen - Author - Truth Files

Posted

Originally Posted By: miz3

WRONG!

Oh, because you say so? If a sinner can either repent or not, ignore or accept, reconcile or remain enemies, obey or disobey, what does that tell you. Having alternatives can only mean one has a CHOICE! You can ACCEPT or REJECT what I am telling you. That is YOUR CHOICE!!!

Quote:

The Bible does not teach that humans have something called the "will". That is an invention of human origin! NO CHOICE!

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, CHOOSE this day whom you will serve..." Josh 24:15 ESV.

"If anyone’s WILL is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority." Jn 7:17 ESV

You are wrong not because I say so, but because the Bible says so!

As we have pointed out many times before the Joshua chapter twenty-four text is not telling people to make a choice. They already knew who was evil and who was good. This is a call to arms so that the camp could be purged of those who have done evil! This text has nothing to do with human "free will"!

Second, the John chapter seven text is not talking about humans having a "free will"! Jesus is saying that if the human has the "desire" to obey God then they will know that Jesus was speaking the Truth! In this case the "word will" means "human desire", NOT A PLACE IN THE HUMAN WHERE THE WILL IS! Where does that "desire" or "will" come from? NOT FROM THE PERSON BY THEMSELVES!

IT COMES FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT!

It is the same thing that happened when Jesus asked Peter who He was. Peter replied that Jesus was the Messiah! Jesus made a determined point to show that Peter's response was not Peter's idea or Peter's "choice" or Peter's "will" but that response came from God!

The same Principle is at work in the John 7:17 text you cited!

Thus, again NO CHOICE! NO HUMAN FREE WILL!

Posted

>>you don't want me to answer that; about the olive tree.<<

Sure I do. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been rightfully corrected. Besides, I’m here to learn.

Posted

jasd, keep on keep'n on, if we agreed all the time this wouldn't be much of a discussion forum would it.

As far as the olive tree, that info is in Romans and that is all I will say.

Posted

Miz3: I'm sorry, but where on earth do you get this claim that there is no year day principle? I know that Desmond Ford said this but again he gave no proof. The book "Before Philosophy" by Heneri Frankfort and others who taught at the University of Chicago, copyright 1946 University of Chicago Press, says that the ancient world had cycles including the year-day cycle.

The Baal religion is full of year-day references. Studies of ancient near eastern history, Egyptolog, Asseriology and other studies of the regon have the year day principle. Amos (I'll have to look up the texts) has the year-day principle (Talking about sacrfices that were given every so many years but they were being offered every so many days) other texts as well in the miner prophets. Scholars see how Matthew draws parrellels between Jesus and Moses, and saw Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness equvalent to Moses' 40 years in the wilderness.

That's right, these come from archaeology, study of ancient literature and culture and Biblical Scholarship and not from the mind of Miz3, they are the pagan sources that we are not to consider and need to ignore these sources of evidence and listen to what Miz3 says.

The fact that PAGANS used year/day cycles does not mean that God does! We do not get our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might but the Bible does not! In fact God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows they are not to copy the practices and the culture of the pagans around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis erroneous! You should really read the Bible instead of spending so much time in pagan sources!

The most important fact is that the year/day principle is not in the Bible. Don't bother to quote me Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special singular events that were specifically for that event alone. The Bible does not anywhere say anything about a broad principle of year/day!

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Posted

>>Daniel's visions have never been sealed from understanding ....<<

Then, why did Gd seal the book? I disagree with and would amend the “never been sealed from understanding” qualifying it with – in large measure ‘understanding’ was given; however, the entirety of the visions were given without anyone’s complete understanding, which was to be remedied in the “time of the end”.

>>...in fact he was given understanding directly with each [which any can read today]<<

True, in part.

>>It is the future events of the visions that have been sealed [delayed] .... until the time of the end still pending .... not the understanding of these things [Revelation 5:1-10] .... the things hereafter [Revelation 4:1]<<

The text reads cepher/book was sealed – not “future events...”.

>>One can understand .... the events involved have just not yet come to pass<<

/ Why then haven’t the great Empires of the world these past two millennia formed a part of the image of Daniel 2?

/ Why did Gd utilize the goat to signify Greece?—and the Ram to signify Persia? Those are Zodiacal signs – complementing the beliefs of the two peoples...

/ Why would Gd reprise the four kingdoms of chapter 2 with the four beasts “which came up out of the sea” – segueing to four kings [which] “shall arise out of the earth”?

You take my meaning...

Posted

The fact that PAGANS used year/day cycles does not mean that God does! We do not get our understanding of the Bible from Pagan sources! You might but the Bible does not! In fact God goes to great lengths to make sure that Israel knows they are not to copy the practices and the culture of the pagans around them! Thus, citing those sources makes your analysis erroneous! You should really read the Bible instead of spending so much time in pagan sources!

The most important fact is that the year/day principle is not in the Bible. Don't bother to quote me Numbers 14:34 and/or Ezekiel 4:6 because these texts are very special singular events that were specifically for that event alone. The Bible does not anywhere say anything about a broad principle of year/day!

NO YEAR/DAY IN THE BIBLE!

Quit acting like a child miz3. Your answers are always immature and annoying. IF you decide to never change, I look forward to that joyful day when you leave this forum, then I wont' have to hear your repetitive tautological noise.

Nobody is suggesting that we use the year/day principle because the Pagans used it!! NOBODY!! Quit this foolishness! The point being made is that this was a TRADITIONAL PARALLELISM USED EVEN BY THE ANCIENTS -- OLD TESTAMENT WRITERS OFTEN USED ANCIENT TRADITIONAL WRITING STYLES SO THAT THEIR READERS COULD UNDERSTAND! Do you UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS? *WWHEEWW*

Sometimes I wonder about you miz3. It's like you're getting worse with the way you use your brain as we progress in these forums.

I have already given you PLENTY of day/year studies WHICH YOU HAVE PURPOSELY IGNORED! Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34 are just TWO tiny examples out of SCORES!

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/YearDay80.pdf

http://secretsunsealed.org/downloads/yeardayprinciple.pdf

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Jrnl/Dan0924-27_DayYear.pdf

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Heb_Sbcym.pdf

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/YearDay_Full.pdf

Now FACE the music HEAD ON, and READ THESE PAPERS!! I will NOT LET YOU OFF THE HOOK UNTIL YOU DO. bwink

bargu

~Lysimachus (Marcos S.)

Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article)
Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation
Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith
Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League

Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf

Posted

Read Levitivus 25. God setup a calendar that functioned on a year, week of years, and week of Sabbath years, I call it the restoration calendar, it is also called the Jubilee calendar. All restoration/apocalyptic prophecy given in "days" operates on this yearly calendar until it ends. The appointed time of the end is when this calendar ends, it ended on March 19, 1994. We are now in the delay of the release of the four winds (Revelation 7)

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