Guest Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 There has been progress, but this world won't be totally color blind until the earth made new. Absolutely true.
Kountzer Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Just because someone comments about something from the point of view and experience of his racial background does not make that person a racist, nor is he or she practicing racism. You may do your best to paint it so, but that is more a smear tactic tactic than anything else. Motivated by racial hatred I'm sure, but that's a whole different topic thread. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Kountzer Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Profiling is necessary. We all do it most days. And in this case - the profilee was indeed a drug user and abuser. So the assessment was correct. OR - can you see the following: Oh this appears to be a black person. I'm sure a black person would be innocent and certainly is going about an appropriate business here in our gated community. NO need for the neighborhood 'watch' to 'watch' HIM. Even though I've never seen this dude in this locked community before - since he is black - I'll just ignore him. I fear the above is the profiling that some would have the Neighborhood 'Watch' to do. All Zman had to do was stay in his car and wait for real police officers to come out and handle the situation. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Members phkrause Posted April 13, 2012 Members Posted April 13, 2012 There has been progress, but this world won't be totally color blind until the earth made new. Sadly I agree Kountzer, and it is something to look forward too. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Members phkrause Posted April 13, 2012 Members Posted April 13, 2012 We have reached an interesting point in the conversation. Some random thoughts. To the white racist equality will feel the same as oppression because his/her natural disposition is to feel/act superior. They expect privilege and do not expect to be challenged or their integrity impugned. When the "inferior" class has as much say, gains power and perhaps can drive the agenda (whatever that may be), the supremacist experiences something brand new. He cannot operate the way he used to, say the things he likes, he cannot discriminate as easily. He concludes that he is a victim of the new system of things. He does not have the freedom he once had. He is oppressed. Excellent post Lazarus phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Members phkrause Posted April 13, 2012 Members Posted April 13, 2012 Just because someone comments about something from the point of view and experience of his racial background does not make that person a racist, nor is he or she practicing racism. You may do your best to paint it so, but that is more a smear tactic tactic than anything else. Motivated by racial hatred I'm sure, but that's a whole different topic thread. Couldn't have said bette3r myself. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Quote: All Zman had to do was stay in his car and wait for real police officers to come out and handle the situation. And if you heard the 911 tapes - you would know that he agreed to meet the police at a certain location. But unfortunately he was ambushed before getting there. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 There has been progress, but this world won't be totally color blind until the earth made new. This is a negative, defeatist attitude and excuse that I refuse to espouse. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
olger Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Quote: LOL. You sound a 7th grader who says "oh that whole constitution thing". I don't get that from what Og is saying. I think he is just tired of the racism that he sees and reads. Indeed. [This is] "Taking up an offense." That is vicarious bitterness for a situation that they are not personally involved in. It carries all of the same consequences as the sin of bitterness. Fortunately it can be resolved in Jesus. He turns it into compassion when we resolve it from our hearts. I had times in my life where I carried bitterness, and chose to resolve it, and God eventually replaced the resentment with compassion for that individual. Praise Him. Hebrews 12:15 warns believers to "not allow a root of bitterness to spring up among you, whereby many are defiled." Taking up an offense is bitterness on someone's behalf. Is useless. And damaging. !!!!!!! Rejoice always, G "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Woody Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Thank you for that Brother Og ... Yes. Jesus IS the answer. Let's pray it happens. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators lazarus Posted April 14, 2012 Moderators Posted April 14, 2012 [This is] "Taking up an offense." G Again wildly off the mark. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bluebelle Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 personaly I feel no guilt because I have not done anything to people of color because of their color; I do not appreciate being put into a box and labeled because of my color. But black people can say the same thing-- that they are being put in a box or category that has nothing to do with who they are but society has no problem assuming the worst. The whole Zimmerman shenanigans can attest to that.
doug yowell Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Congress took note of their service and sacrifice Wednesday by erecting commemorative plaques inside the Capitol in their honor. Lawmakers said the memorials will ensure that the contributions of slaves in building one of the world's most recognizable buildings will never again be forgotten. "In remembering the slaves who labored here, we give them in death some measure of the dignity they were so cruelly denied in life," Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said at the plaques' unveiling. Building a building is not the same as building a nation.Apparently the nation has already officially recognized some of the contributions of slaves. But how does this relate to today's "injustices"? Will a monument to the past injustices bring about healing to the black American's soul? The cotton of the South was king, built upon the sweat and lives of slaves. It was the engine that drove the rebellion. It was also wiped out in a few short years along with the institution itself at the cost of 600,000 American lives. We Americans have that in our history too. What indulgences would the country need to offer to be released from the past in order to pursue the future together?
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 14, 2012 Administrators Posted April 14, 2012 Quote: No one would have to die if Zimmerman did not have a gun. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun - HE would have been killed by Martin. That is a fact. No it's not! Something that did not happen cannot be a fact. That is more speculative than much of the rest of the conjecture being tossed around on this whole case... "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Guest Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 [This is] "Taking up an offense." That is vicarious bitterness for a situation that they are not personally involved in. It carries all of the same consequences as the sin of bitterness. Fortunately it can be resolved in Jesus. He turns it into compassion when we resolve it from our hearts. I had times in my life where I carried bitterness, and chose to resolve it, and God eventually replaced the resentment with compassion for that individual. Praise Him. Hebrews 12:15 warns believers to "not allow a root of bitterness to spring up among you, whereby many are defiled." Taking up an offense is bitterness on someone's behalf. Is useless. And damaging. !!!!!!! Rejoice always, G Thank you olger, I am rejoicing as we speak. And you are right about it being useless and damaging.
Moderators lazarus Posted April 14, 2012 Moderators Posted April 14, 2012 Quote: Building a building is not the same as building a nation.Apparently the nation has already officially recognized some of the contributions of slaves. Dude, that was just an example. I'm sure there are many more. I was jumping in when you asked fcool a question. Are you saying that slaves did not contribute to the building of the nation? Quote: We Americans have that in our history too. I'm puzzled by this statement. When you say we Americans, who do you mean? Our history too? I'm confused by that. We've been talking about American history all along. Quote: What indulgences would the country need to offer to be released from the past in order to pursue the future together? No one is holding you. You are released! If you mean when will we stop talking about it. That will never happen. The dialogue will continue. Past experience frames the future. The nation of Israel is framed by the Jewish experience in Nazi Germany. This brings us back to the MLK quote. I'm realizing that many white folks resent talk about racism etc because every time it is raised they feel a sense of shame and guilt. It's as if black folks are blaming them. It's as if black folks are saying you are the same and those nasty slave holders. I just remembered how upset my German room-mate was when I bought home a book about the SS. "What are you doing with that?" he said. He seemed angry. I was really puzzled for while as to why he was so upset. Some time later I got it. It was a chapter in his country's history that he really wanted to forget. Bringing a book into the house bought up a lot of issues for him. In the Adventist church, for example, the way forward is to talk through it. It takes time, humility and honesty. Perhaps begin with some town hall meetings in different conferences. Have conference executive committees place the item of racial reconciliation on the agenda. Have a net series on the theme of reconciliation. Begin a dialog. Have a truth and reconciliation commission like SA did. We can't move forward unless we meet and talk. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
CoAspen Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Quote: It is such statements that you have made above that continue to fuel the fires of racism. So let me understand you .... in your mind - BLACKS are the ONLY culture that are oppressed? What world do U live in? Again, you avoid answering a question/s by asking another one in order to shift the focus away from your statements about 'white people' believe this or that. A classic ploy that is used often in these forums to avoid accountability for statements made and questions asked about posted statements. You have been talking about race issues between black and white. Waiting for you to answer, a clarification if you please, as to whether or not you believe in what you are posting.
doug yowell Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Quote: Building a building is not the same as building a nation.Apparently the nation has already officially recognized some of the contributions of slaves. Are you saying that slaves did not contribute to the building of the nation? No, I was asking a question. When I think of nation building I think of the principles on which that nation is founded and the actions that helped establish and sustain it. Maybe we're talking apples and grapes? I did mention the robust economic engine that slavery produced antebellum. I couldn't think of another example right off the top of my head so that's why I asked.
Moderators Gerr Posted April 14, 2012 Author Moderators Posted April 14, 2012 Begin a dialog. Have a truth and reconciliation Ah, reconciliation! 2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (ESV) "in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." Now let's explore more fully how this reconciliation can take place.
bonnie Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Dude, that was just an example. I'm sure there are many more. I was jumping in when you asked fcool a question. Are you saying that slaves did not contribute to the building of the nation? Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
doug yowell Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Originally Posted By: lazarus Begin a dialog. Have a truth and reconciliation Ah, reconciliation! 2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (ESV) "in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." Now let's explore more fully how this reconciliation can take place. AMEN!!That is exactly what reconciliation is all about. "Come now let us reason together, though your racisms be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow."
Members phkrause Posted April 14, 2012 Members Posted April 14, 2012 Ah, reconciliation! 2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (ESV)"in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." Now let's explore more fully how this reconciliation can take place. AMEN!!That is exactly what reconciliation is all about. "Come now let us reason together, though your racisms be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow." Great posts doug and Gerry. I agree reconciliation is a wonderful thing, just as forgiving is. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we forget. Just as the holocaust victims, most have forgiven, but none have forgotten. Of course we know that in heaven and the earth made new we will eventually forget! phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Gerr Posted April 14, 2012 Author Moderators Posted April 14, 2012 If reconciliation is ever to take place according to this verse, the wronged party must stop counting the trespasses, and the wrongdoer must stop doing the injustice.
olger Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Agreed and Amen. "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
LifeHiscost Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: Your response is the usual response and it doesn't make the situation better. Introduction to Jesus doesn't make it better???? At one time I was highly predudicial re: others, even to the poor white trash or the one who wore saddle shoes, adinfinitum. When I chose Jesus as Savior and ultimately Lord, I listened to His Word as the voice of God to my soul. I learned all who are willing to meet at the foot of the cross, allowed all others the right to be who they wanted to be and speak the words they wanted to speak, even the dialect with which they chose to speak. And I learned to quit putting others as the ones responsible for my malcontent. As long as God is Sovereign and I am willing give Him full freedom to fashion my experiences, the so called injustice to my person is orchestrated by Him to work for my fullest reward in the home He is preparing for me, and I've learned to hate that which I was once slave to and expend my energy toward helping others find the peace that passes understanding through the awesome and wonderful grace of Jesus' shed blood in allowing me to be accounted worthy to reign with Him when He returns to take me, as well as any others who accept that grace, home with Him. "And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." Romans 2:27-29 NKJV Even so, Come Lord Jesus. God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
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