LifeHiscost Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: As long as you keep looking for someone to pay for the sins of the past you will always be spying racism under every bush. Excellent summary Bonnie Have to agree with both of you, even though Woody's assent was easier to put down. What most of the "successful" don't recognize is that there are multitudes of others responsible for their success, very many on less than livable wages. This happens to be the land of the enemy. The solution is to give your life to the Giver of life Who makes provision for His own. "“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: It remains a perpetual shame whose consequences continue to haunt us in our attempts to continue to create a society that is what our founders originally had in mind. Which is a global problem, no less one place than another, except in the pervasiveness of the miscreants. What can we do? Make sure that in the sphere of influence we function , we treat people the way we would wish to be treated. That includes loving our enemies. His answers are so simple. Will that answer all the problems of past and present injustices? Obviously not. That's why Jesus is getting ready to wrap it up. God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
jasd Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 >>IMHO, it begins with, dialogue as opposed to discussion, debate.<< Okaayyy..., sounds good in theory, but... >>...but the death of a child at the hands of a white assailant who goes free raises particular emotions.<< Oughtn’t there be inherent in a dialogue – an expectation of honesty re the presentation of facts?—like, it is insane to refer to a 6’3” 160 pound 17-year old as a “child” – when instead, that “child” is a few short months away from eligibility to enlist in one of the Nation’s armed Services!—and a mestizo is still a mestizo – regardless – except for purposes of stirring antipathy between the pertinent races. And isn’t the jurisprudence system yet to decide whether the “white assailant” was indeed – the assailant? Semantics ought not to so prejudiciously intrude into a supposedly honest dialogue, yes?—and one really ought to practice what he or she preaches... So, what sort of dialogic resolution had you in mind when you elected to inject semantics into the dialogue? Let me guess, you’d prefer re Zimmerman – that Napoleonic Law prevailed?—‘swhy the clamor? And digressing just a bit – per MLK, he was morally repugnant and a fellow traveler of communists (Dubois); moreover, for one who proclaimed ‘peace’ – everywhere he went on his ‘peace’ marches he stirred up a ration of trouble – sometimes leading to jail time for himself and property damage for others. Etc. This is the sort of man for which we displaced Washington and Lincoln that he might be given a place of honor re a calendrical Natl holiday. Tchah! As long as MLK is the sort held to be the lodestar for minorities – it can only go worse for them, as there is neither discernment nor honesty re MLK. Better a minority should look to George Washington Carver who actually was born a slave (1864?) and who, through conviction and industriousness, rose to be a respected force amongst all peoples of his time, and ours – before dying during WWII (1943). I believe that basically covers the time period being discussed... >>I think she takes the time to hear. Datente is French for relaxation.<< Détente also means ‘a release from tension’, which, together with ‘hearing’ – may be a thing that ought to cut both ways... and enough with this current ‘law by clamor’. >>Interestingly, I don't see American Christians getting over 911 any time soon. I don't hear much talk about forgiveness or dealing with anger towards Muslims. That's odd behavior for Christians.<< Umm, apples and oranges?—I mean, the Muslim Jihad encompasses war with the Great Satan – Us. One does not readily ‘get over’ the fact that another has declared war against one’s person and properties. It is a Prime Example where one is justified to avail oneself of a “Stand-Your-Ground” defense... >>have found that white Christians have been the least understanding and empathetic of all.<< Is called ‘bootstrap’ unnerstandin’, and we’s, as a nation, done be runnin’ outta the money. We’ve spent since 1964 – more than a trillion dollar$ per year inclusively on poverty!—so, Tace! good people – and grab your bootstrap!—‘cause tha’s beaucoup buck$ in anybody’s Hip-Hop urban dictionary. Together with all our other excessive spending, it’s the end of the world as we know it.
jasd Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: Quote:fccool If you really think that this would have happen to preppy dressed white teen walking home, while looking at the houses... you have a good case then. Better case than that of Florida prosecutor. Well, uh, hellooo...! Ask J.Jackson, who sed he feered a bro' acomin’ up on him in the dark o'clock – all sort o' happy face seein' is ony crackerman... Does it matter to you that a video exists showing Martin’s body was near Zimmerman’s car? Oughtn’t that make it out that Martin had followed Zimmerman back to his car and took it upon himself to administer ‘Justice’ on the ‘cracker’?—kinda like other acts of ‘Justice’ committed upon other crackers... y’know, followin’ a cracker kid home from school and dousing him with gasoline on his porch and lightin’ him up; a crowd involved in sucker punching a visiting cracker in front of the Baltimore Courthouse, beatin’ him, stripping him nekked, and relieving him of his properties – whilst laughin’ their silly fundaments off, etc. Anyways... Zimmerman was let go on the advice of the Police Dept’s counsel because the evidence substantiated his story and there was none to hold him. Seems eminently logical, yes?—well, until the clamor reached the State House and sundry other ‘powers that be’... Law by clamor. Quote: Quote:fccool No one would have to die if Zimmerman did not have a gun. Without the gun, Zimmerman would, according to eyewitness testimony, surely have had his brains spilled out upon the sidewalk... I agree with Woody that Martin’s mother seems to be the one deserving our sympathy and our empathy – our disgust reserved for others... wonderin’ if the ‘clamor’ community has contributed to a fund to alleviate her suffering and to ameliorate her loss? Ain not holdin’ my breath...
olger Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Sublime, JA. "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 15, 2012 Administrators Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: Quote:fccool No one would have to die if Zimmerman did not have a gun. Without the gun, Zimmerman would, according to eyewitness testimony, surely have had his brains spilled out upon the sidewalk... I think it just as probable that had he not had a gun, he wouldn't have gotten out of his car to follow Martin... Or as the supposed "struggle for the gun" version of his story suggests, Martin may have felt a need to fight like someone who is being threatened by a man with a gun. Who was the one acting in self-defense? That will be a question for the jury to decide. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Woody Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: Law by clamor. I agree - this is what we are seeing. No doubt. What a shame that America has come to this. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Kountzer Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 For what it's worth. Guns scare me. I may have talked gun ish, but I've only fired a pistol three times in my life: two times while training in the U.S. Coast Guard, & once when I went to the gun range with my cousin's bf, who was a policeman with the NOLA PD. That was a few decades ago. I'm scarred that if I got a gun I might accidently shoot myself in the foot, or hurt or kill someone I love, again by accident. I work for the state agency that regulates CHL in Texas. Everybody is packing around here, but me, or so it seems. I see people with CHLs at work all the time. I wonder how many of them train enough to be able to shoot the perpetrator of a crime, if it came to that, without killing a bystander. I'm thinking not many. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Members phkrause Posted April 15, 2012 Members Posted April 15, 2012 For what it's worth. Guns scare me. I may have talked gun ish, but I've only fired a pistol three times in my life: two times while training in the U.S. Coast Guard, & once when I went to the gun range with my cousin's bf, who was a policeman with the NOLA PD. That was a few decades ago. I'm scarred that if I got a gun I might accidently shoot myself in the foot, or hurt or kill someone I love, again by accident. I work for the state agency that regulates CHL in Texas. Everybody is packing around here, but me, or so it seems. I see people with CHLs at work all the time. I wonder how many of them train enough to be able to shoot the perpetrator of a crime, if it came to that, without killing a bystander. I'm thinking not many. I'm with you, I also have no desire to even own one. It makes people do stupid things and act tougher than they are. I think this trial will bring up some very interesting aspects of what happen. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
fccool Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Quote: If reconciliation is ever to take place according to this verse, the wronged party must stop counting the trespasses, and the wrongdoer must stop doing the injustice. In terms of Biblical morality as Christianity sees it, the reconciliation begins with someone paying debt . So, I would not invoke it in terms of racial gap in this country. I was driving to a family video store yesterday night, to get a film my wife wanted to see for a while (they did not have it on Netflix, naturally)... and as I parked the car I ran into a familiar scene. Familiar, because I lived in South Florida for a while. A young girl has parked her car in the parking lot of the family video. The windows are down. There are two young kids in the car, a girl and a boy... no more than 5-6 years old. The content and the message of the lyrics is violent self-promotion using foul language and referencing women as "b@#@&s"... f.. this ... f.. that. and etc. You get the idea. Then they get out, go to the family movie store and peruse the kids section, and end up checking out a couple of Disney classic movies that kids picked. Now. This is a pretty good example of the cultural dissonance that can be observed. On one hand we have an "auditory pornography" that's popularized and instilled in language and culture. On the other hand, we still have understanding that you don't take kids to the "adult movie store", or make them watch a horror flick. Of course, the problem is not solely "racial", but rather cultural in this case. And in my opinion, the racial prejudices are not really against "race", but against the culture that such race practices at large. For example, you don't find people being accused of racism against Michael Jordan, or Shaq. Why is that? Because both Jordan, and O'Neal are practicing the culture as they were trained by their education, and NBA to carry themselves. They dress a certain way, their speech is of certain manner. They carry themselves a certain way. Therefore their behavior is culturally "acceptable" of anyone. Now, 60 years ago, such would not be the case. No matter how educated, well-dressed, or well-cultured you were, if you were black, you simply did not have the same types of opportunities. So, there are two sides to listen to in this conversation, which IMO has little to do with race, and more with the culture. 1) The side of the white culture who feel like certain aspects of black culture don't fit in well in terms of productive societal norm. And these are the things that many progressive black people would teach their children to avoid... Things like saggy pants (or loose clothes in general), blasting music, foul and arrogant speech, avoiding violence, etc... etc... 2) The side of the black culture who feel that this culture is merely reactive to things that left a wave of devastation in its trail, and which are not even close to being addressed and resolved. Thus the people that choose to "pick & choose" #1 problems are ignoring the underlying reason for these problems... one of which is the racial sentiments of the past, and the impoverished condition that such actions of the past created for the black community at large. Both have their points, but these end up just pointing fingers without any underlying understanding of the problem itself. The problem today is not really "racism". The problem is that members of certain race are suffering effects of generational poverty because of the past racism.
Dr. Rich Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 For what it's worth. Guns scare me. I may have talked gun ish, but I've only fired a pistol three times in my life: two times while training in the U.S. Coast Guard, & once when I went to the gun range with my cousin's bf, who was a policeman with the NOLA PD. That was a few decades ago. I'm scarred that if I got a gun I might accidently shoot myself in the foot, or hurt or kill someone I love, again by accident. I work for the state agency that regulates CHL in Texas. Everybody is packing around here, but me, or so it seems. I see people with CHLs at work all the time. I wonder how many of them train enough to be able to shoot the perpetrator of a crime, if it came to that, without killing a bystander. I'm thinking not many. You have a point--not many thugs or criminals are trained to use the tool we call a pistol correctly. You have fear because of not being trained as most would have a fear of flying a plane without being trained. However, I feel alot safer around folks who have been trained and carrying. I honestly belive I stopped a murder ONLY because I was carrying concealed when a white woman jumped out of a car screaming for help and the black guy driving the car stopped suddenly, jumped out of the car with a gun and started to chase her. Without thinking, I jumped out of my car and drew down on this guy and ordered him to stop and drop the gun, but instead he turned around and ran back for the car and jumped in an fled. I learned later the girl has been kidnapped and thought she was going to die--and this was in Loma Linda at that! Therefore, some people out there are happy for folks who carry and know what to do when 'IT' happens.
Guest Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I'm with you, I also have no desire to even own one. It makes people do stupid things and act tougher than they are. Carrying a gun has never made me do anything stupid. It HAS saved my life at least once that I know of, maybe twice. Also carrying a gun has never made me ACT any differently than I do when I'm not carrying a gun. Just because stupid people sometimes do stupid things with guns, does not mean that it was the GUN that made them stupid. How absurd! Common sense, and good judgment cannot be legislated into existence. Just like holding a gun made of steel in your hand, cannot make you stupid. Either you are already stupid, or you already use common sense and good judgment. This fact should be obvious to anyone who thinks it through on their own, instead of biting down hook, line, and sinker, on every liberal propaganda line that is trotted out.
Dr. Rich Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I'm with you, I also have no desire to even own one. It makes people do stupid things and act tougher than they are. I think this trial will bring up some very interesting aspects of what happen. Does owning a car make people do stupic things? NO! Same with guns! PK, stupid people are stupid and do stupid things just because they are stupid (chosen to be and remain ignorant). You are stupid when it comes to guns because you have chosen to remain ignorant on how to use one correctly. Your fear is only justified because you have chosen to remain fearful.
Kountzer Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: pkrause I'm with you, I also have no desire to even own one. It makes people do stupid things and act tougher than they are. I think this trial will bring up some very interesting aspects of what happen. Does owning a car make people do stupic things? NO! Same with guns! PK, stupid people are stupid and do stupid things just because they are stupid (chosen to be and remain ignorant). You are stupid when it comes to guns because you have chosen to remain ignorant on how to use one correctly. Your fear is only justified because you have chosen to remain fearful. Owning a car does make people do stupid things, some of them. Just about anyone can get a driver license, and quite a few of them shouldn't have one. Police chases, going 100 mph, endangering innocent lives, it happens all the time. Same with guns. Quite a few people are responsible, but no way the superficial screening process is going to separate the nut cases from those who are responsible. Since we're on black & white crime, here's a link for you:http://bandittracker.com/ look at the pictures, quite a few of your white brothers are committing violent crimes as well. Here's another of a woman kidnapped and burned by someone who looks, and probably acts just like you: http://bandittracker.com/ If you could you would probably try to shoot your way into heaven, but it ain't gonna work like that, lol. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Guest Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 PK, You are stupid when it comes to guns because you have chosen to remain ignorant on how to use one correctly. I disagree Rich. Choosing not to learn how to use or have a gun, doesn't make you stupid. Anymore than choosing to have a gun makes you stupid. You're just as wrong as he is! ....Shocker, I know.
Kountzer Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: pkrause I'm with you, I also have no desire to even own one. It makes people do stupid things and act tougher than they are. I think this trial will bring up some very interesting aspects of what happen. Does owning a car make people do stupic things? NO! Same with guns! PK, stupid people are stupid and do stupid things just because they are stupid (chosen to be and remain ignorant). You are stupid when it comes to guns because you have chosen to remain ignorant on how to use one correctly. Your fear is only justified because you have chosen to remain fearful. I wouldn't walk across the street to hear you teach, preach, or whatever your profession is. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Dr. Rich Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Richard, you are free to choose to disagree but it does not change the fact (yes--fact) that those who have made a choice NOT to learn about an issue, are in fact stupid (intentional ignorant) about that issue. That is what stupid means. It is intentionally remaining ignorant because of the choice to remain ignorant. It is not per se being stupid, it is remaining ignorant about that issue, it being guns or driving a car. You did not read what I wrote correctly. Now, if you do not agree, then please tell us why and what your understanding of the word 'stupid' means.
Members phkrause Posted April 15, 2012 Members Posted April 15, 2012 This fact should be obvious to anyone who thinks it through on their own, instead of biting down hook, line, and sinker, on every liberal propaganda line that is trotted out. I do not bite down on every liberal line of propaganda, just as I don't bite down on every line of conservative line of propaganda either. Again if you want to take it personally, that's your choice. But please not take my statement out of context. I did not say all or everyone did I? phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Kountzer Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 If I so chose to, I could easily master handling a gun. All these bozos that have them, it can't be that hard. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Members phkrause Posted April 15, 2012 Members Posted April 15, 2012 Does owning a car make people do stupic things? NO! Same with guns! PK, stupid people are stupid and do stupid things just because they are stupid (chosen to be and remain ignorant). You are stupid when it comes to guns because you have chosen to remain ignorant on how to use one correctly. Your fear is only justified because you have chosen to remain fearful. Can you show my quote where I said I don't know how to use one? Please let me see it??????? Oh I guess you can't because I didn't say that! Did I. Which doesn't make me stupid or not, as it doesn't make you stupid or not, to own or not to own. And as far as owning a car, if that makes one stupid or not? I wont dignify that with an answer, so that we can go around a few pages arguing and now changing anyone's mind one way or the other. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Kountzer Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 http://www.click2houston.com/news/3-accu...0g/-/index.html I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Guest Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 But please not take my statement out of context. I did not say all or everyone did I? You said guns make people do stupid things. You didn't specify how many people, but the inference is that it is more than a few, which is false. No gun ever made anybody stupid. Yet the mere mention of them seems to make liberals turn stupid, because that's when they start saying the stupid things. I don't know how you think that I took what you said out of context. Please show me where you think I did. You were talking about guns when you said what you said, right?
Woody Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: pkrause I'm with you, I also have no desire to even own one. It makes people do stupid things and act tougher than they are. Carrying a gun has never made me do anything stupid. It HAS saved my life at least once that I know of, maybe twice. Also carrying a gun has never made me ACT any differently than I do when I'm not carrying a gun. Just because stupid people sometimes do stupid things with guns, does not mean that it was the GUN that made them stupid. How absurd! Common sense, and good judgment cannot be legislated into existence. Just like holding a gun made of steel in your hand, cannot make you stupid. Either you are already stupid, or you already use common sense and good judgment. This fact should be obvious to anyone who thinks it through on their own, instead of biting down hook, line, and sinker, on every liberal propaganda line that is trotted out. I would tend to go along with this. Good Points Richard. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH This fact should be obvious to anyone who thinks it through on their own, instead of biting down hook, line, and sinker, on every liberal propaganda line that is trotted out. I do not bite down on every liberal line of propaganda, just as I don't bite down on every line of conservative line of propaganda either. Again if you want to take it personally, that's your choice. But please not take my statement out of context. I did not say all or everyone did I? Good Point there pk May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Guest Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I work for the state agency that regulates CHL in Texas. Everybody is packing around here, but me, or so it seems. I see people with CHLs at work all the time. I wonder how many of them train enough to be able to shoot the perpetrator of a crime, if it came to that, without killing a bystander. I'm thinking not many. I'm assuming you mean a concealed carry license, or CCL as it's called here. (must be called Concealed Handgun License, in Texas) Anybody who has one of those, has been extensively trained in how to handle a firearm. That's the only way they can get the license. You of all people should know that, since you work for the agency that regulates it.
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