Atonement - when?

[Guest arnie]

Samie,

Thanks for your scriptures in the defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I was so relieved when I read all through the New Testament about the atonement that our best friend, Jesus Christ, made for us at the cross. It became a light in a very dark place in my life. No longer do I have to fear, wondering when my name will come up for review in an investigating judgement,you know, will I pass the test? (we were taught this from EGW in Bible Doctrines class in the academy). It was frightening. The gospel is not complicated, nor does it take an academic to explain it. Paul tells us in the book of Romans the whole story of salvation and how it works. The story is reiterated in the book of Hebrews: "Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a NEW and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great high priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water" Hebrews 10: 19-22. It doesn't matter what Ellen may say or not say. It's what the Bible says that is important to me. I would admonish all who read this, to set aside everything else, and read only the scriptures accompanied by prayer and the Holy Spirit. May God Bless, Arnie

[Gerr]

A perfect, once-for-all atoning sacrifice was made at the cross. Atonement has been going on every since then. But as typified by the Great Day of Atonement in the Sanctuary service, there is a time when the final act of atonement when sin and sinners will be no more.

[Samie]

Hi Bro. Arnie;

Praise God! Yes, you are right; the pure gospel is not complicated. Even ordinary people can grasp its real meaning. A perfect atonement was made on the cross for all our sins. Finished. Completed. Otherwise, man's reconciliation with God could not have occurred. Sin separates man from God (Isa 59:2). Unless that which separates is removed reconciliation could not be effected. Atonement on the cross took care of both forgiveness (Col 2:13, 14) and cleansing from sin (Rev 1:5), and consequently, because sin was removed, reconciliation was effected. The Bible is very emphatic in saying that we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son (Rom 5:10, 11). We are now attached to Christ. All that remains is for us to become overcomers (Rom 12:21) so that our names will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). Overcoming is more than possible (Rom 8:37) because we are attached to Him Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13).

In Christ,

Samie

[Guest arnie]

The old covenant and it's symbolisms were done away with when Jesus gave his life on the cross. Jesus was the lamb, the priest, the water, the veil, the candlestick, the shewbread, and suffered without the gate as the scapegoat in the Levitical Priesthood. He also bore all our sins. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and CLEANSE US from all unrighteousness". A new priesthood began after Christ's resurrection like unto the Melchizedek Priesthood. He was priest not by human rules and regulations, but through the power of a life which has no end. Hebrews 8:1 reads, "The whole point of what we are saying is that we have such a High Priest, who sits at the right of the throne of the Divine Majesty in heaven. He serves as high priest in the Most Holy Place, that is in the real tent which was put up by the Lord, not by human hands". Hebrews 10:16 - This is the covenant that I will make with them in the days to come, says the Lord; I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds. I will not remember their sins and evil deeds any longer. So when these have been forgiven, an offering to take away sins is no longer needed. We have, then, my friends, complete freedom to go into the Most Holy Place by means of the death of Jesus. He opened for us a new way, a living way, through the CURTAIN - -that is, through HIS OWN BODY".

Hebrews 10:1 indicates "that the Jewish Law is not a full and faithful model of the real things; it is only a faint outline of the good things to come". May God Bless, Arnie

[Gibs]

Heb 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

I do like the KJV far better, much better translation.

Just remember Jesus is still at the throne of Grade presenting His Blood in our behalf!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Bro jackson;

Yours is a hopeless case. Your misapplication of verses had been laid out in the open. And what you did is place your words into my mouth, so you will have something against what I posted:

... It was not final but provisional. And you carry the process a step further and say both the forgiveness and the cleansing were done by Christ in the Most Holy Place immediately after His sacrifice, you completely bypass the Holy Place and refuse to wait until the end of earth's history to cleanse the sanctuary.

...

My position was, is and will always be: Forgiveness & cleansing were done on the cross, NOT in the most holy place in heaven. Christ's High Priestly ministry in the most holy place in heaven as our Intercessor (Heb 7:25) and Propitiation for sin (1 John 2:2), is for our continual justification (Rom 4:25) - whenever we sin now, the sin committed, having been forgiven on the cross, is not imputed against us (2 Cor 5:18, 19). On the cross, we were forgiven from all sins (Col 2:13, 14), and washed clean from all sins (Rev 1:5). This Bible truth exposes your futile attempts of misapplying verses to favor your hopeless case. You ardently want God to keep a record of sins He said He won't remember (Heb 10:17) so that Christ will have something to clean in the holy place in heaven?

Had you known and understood what the pure gospel is, you would have not hopelessly tried to salvage your hopeless case. Again, Sister White passed away believing when Christ offered Himself on the cross, a PERFECT ATONEMENT was made for the sins of the people. Notice the verb? It is "was made"; NOT "was started", as you fervently wanted it to mean.

Won't you come over this side of the fence with Sister White here with us, brother?

In Christ,

Samie

[ClubV12]

"Forgiveness & cleansing were done on the cross."

That's what Baptists teach. I wonder if Samie is Baptist...

[Samie]

"Forgiveness & cleansing were done on the cross."

That's what Baptists teach. I wonder if Samie is Baptist...

No, it's what Scriptures teach. You said you are SDA, and you don't read the Bible? Do you go evangelism and preach the SOP?

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Bro jackson;

Had you known and understood what the pure gospel is, you would have not hopelessly tried to salvage your hopeless case. Again, Sister White passed away believing when Christ offered Himself on the cross, a PERFECT ATONEMENT was made for the sins of the people. Notice the verb? It is "was made"; NOT "was started", as you fervently wanted it to mean.

Won't you come over this side of the fence with Sister White here with us, brother?

In Christ,

Samie

[ClubV12]

Samie, the Baptists totally agree with you!! They to read their bible and are convinced their interpretation is correct. You are in harmony with that Church of Babylon. You are not in harmony with Gods true remnant Church, Seventh-day Adventists, which you fight against.

Nothing new about this, the Churches in Babylon, all 34,000 denominations, continue to come up with doctrine that doesn't agree with the bible, Sister White or the Adventist Church. Your just another voice among thousands of voices proclaiming false doctrine.

[Samie]

...

Ellen G. White's Statement Regarding the 1911 Edition of The Great Controversy

"A few days ago I received a copy of the new edition of the book The Great Controversy, recently printed at Mountain View, and also a similar copy printed at Washington. The book pleases me. I have spent many hours looking through its pages, and I see that the publishing houses have done good work.

The book The Great Controversy I appreciate above silver or gold, and I greatly desire that it shall come before the people. While writing the manuscript of The Great Controversy, I was often conscious of the presence of the angels of God. And many times the scenes about which I was writing were presented to me anew in visions of the night, so that they were fresh and vivid in my mind.

Recently it was necessary for this book to be reset, because the electrotype plates were badly worn. It has cost me much to have this done, but I do not complain; for whatever the cost may be, I regard this new edition with great satisfaction.

Yesterday I read what W. C. White has recently written to canvassing agents and responsible men at our publishing houses regarding this latest edition of The Great Controversy, and I think he has presented the matter correctly and well.

When I learned that The Great Controversy must be reset, I determined that we would have everything closely examined, to see if the truths it contained were stated in the very best manner, to convince those not of our faith that the Lord had guided and sustained me in the writing of its pages.

As a result of the thorough examination by our most experienced workers, some changing in the wording has been proposed. These changes I have carefully examined and approved. I am thankful that my life has been spared, and that I have strength and clearness of mind for this and other literary work.

Letter 56, 1911. (To F. M. Wilcox, July 25, 1911, from Sanitarium, California)."

[Samie]

Samie, the Baptists totally agree with you!! They to read their bible and are convinced their interpretation is correct. You are in harmony with that Church of Babylon. You are not in harmony with Gods true remnant Church, Seventh-day Adventists, which you fight against.

Nothing new about this, the Churches in Babylon, all 34,000 denominations, continue to come up with doctrine that doesn't agree with the bible, Sister White or the Adventist Church. Your just another voice among thousands of voices proclaiming false doctrine.

[ClubV12]

"...if Sister White is in harmony with my position."

"IF" being the operative word here Samie. As Paul counsels, you do wrest her testimony to your own destruction. She clearly is NOT in harmony with your position. As the Baptists do with the bible.

[Gibs]

Did He or did He not? Is EGW a liar? Did she have that vision or not? Show me where she is a false prophet! Far from it fellow soldiers of the cross!

The Lord shew me in vision , more than one year ago, that Brother Crosier had the true light, on the cleansing of the Sanctuary, &c; and that it was his will, that Brother C. should write out the view which he gave us in the Day-Star, Extra, February 7, 1846. I feel fully authorized by the Lord, to recommend that Extra, to every saint. LF 12.8}

If the atonement is finished what on earth is Christ doing in the most Holy place at the Throne in our behalf?

He is about finished there is what all better be concerned about!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Plus, when Moses was commanded to built

the eartly sanctuary did not the Lord

show him the heavenly sanctuary, the

pattern?

[Samie]

Did He or did He not? Is EGW a liar? Did she have that vision or not? Show me where she is a false prophet! Far from it fellow soldiers of the cross!

The Lord shew me in vision , more than one year ago, that Brother Crosier had the true light, on the cleansing of the Sanctuary, &c; and that it was his will, that Brother C. should write out the view which he gave us in the Day-Star, Extra, February 7, 1846. I feel fully authorized by the Lord, to recommend that Extra, to every saint. LF 12.8}

[Gibs]

We all understand that Samie, you don't reason it out, yes the sacrifice was completed which was the great test and Christ won it perfectly and the Father was well pleased. Then the part that is continuing is applying the blood and He is yet doing it!

Do you want His blood applied to your case? You know your case might not have come up yet but it will. He shed His Blood for each and every one of us, will we stop the atonement before He atones for us, you do want Him to plead His Blood for you I hope.

I want you to note Samie that EGW did not have a vision of what you posted that was in the Signs Of The Times or the Review later but of the one where she states Crosier had the right understanding that was a Vision!

The atonement isn't completed or your case would not still be pending, the blood of the True Lamb of God must yet be applied to your case. He will decide that.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Great posts Jackson and others.

Here is brother Andreason's own account of how he found out about brother Crozier's article on the atonement.

"In an incomplete research which I conducted years ago I found in a small pamphlet entitled, "A Word to the Little Flock," published by James White in Brunswick, Maine, May 30, 1847, a statement by Sister White on the sanctuary that immediately drew my attention. It is dated April 21, 1847, and written from Topsham, Maine. On page 12, I found these words, which I suppose our Ministry author also found. Says Sister White:

"I believe the Sanctuary to be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days, is the New Jerusalem Temple, of which Christ is a minister. The Lord showed me in vision, more than one year ago, that Brother Crosier had the true light, on the cleansing of the Sanctuary, etc., and that it was His will, that Brother Crozier should write out the view which he gave us in the Day-Star, Extra, February 7, 1846. I feel fully authorized by the Lord, to recommend that Extra to every saint. I pray that these lines may prove a blessing to you, and all the dear children who may read them." Signed E.G. White.

I lost no time to get a copy of that Extra and read it. As I write this I have before me a photostatic copy of the Day-Star Extra for February 7, 1846, and on pages 40 and 41 of that issue I read Brother Crosier's article. After having discussed certain theories in which he does not believe, Brother Crozier observes:

"But again, they say that the atonement was made and finished on Calvary, when the Lamb of God expired. So men have taught us, and so the churches and world believe; but it is none the more true or sacred on that account, if unsupported by Divine authority. Perhaps few or none who hold that opinion have ever tested the foundation on which it rests.

1. If the atonement was made on Calvary, by whom was it made? The making of the atonement is the work of a Priest, but who officiated on Calvary?--Roman soldiers and wicked Jews.

2. The slaying of the victim was not making the atonement; the sinner slew the victim, Leviticus 4:1-4,13-15, etc., after that the Priest took the blood and made the atonement. Leviticus 4:5-12, 16-21.

3. Christ was appointed High Priest to make the atonement, and He certainly could not have acted in that capacity till after His resurrection, and we have no record of His doing any thing on earth after His resurrection, which could be called the atonement.

4. The atonement was made in the Sanctuary, but Calvary was not such a place.

5. He could not according to Hebrews 8:4 make atonement while on earth. "If He were on earth, He should not be a Priest."

The Levitical was the earthly priesthood; the Divine Priesthood, the heavenly.

6. Therefore, He did not begin the work of making atonement, whatever the nature of that work may be, till after His ascension, when by His own blood He entered the heavenly sanctuary for us.

This, then is the "true light" which the Lord showed Sister White in vision, had His approval, and which she felt fully authorized to recommend to every saint.

sky

[Samie]

What work did God give His Son to do in sending Him to earth?

Quote:

NIV John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

NKJ 1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

NKJ Galatians 4:4-5 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

NKJ Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."

Therefore, the work of saving the world from sin, is the work that the Father sent His Son to do.

Did Christ finish the work His Father gave Him to do?

Quote:

NKJ John 17:4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

Christ finished the work the Father gave Him. The work of saving the world from sin had been done, finished, completed. Not only did Christ mention this in Gethsemane; Breathing His last as He hung from the cross, He said "It is finished!" Mission accomplished.

Because our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ is High Priest, His work parallels that of the High Priest in the Levitical priesthood. In the old covenant, at Yum Kippur, or Day of Atonement, the intent of the ministration of the High Priest on the tenth day of the seventh month, is to make atonement for the people to cleanse people from all sins:

Quote:

ESV Leviticus 16:30 For on this day shall atonement be made for you to cleanse you. You shall be clean before the LORD from all your sins.

Similarly, when Christ offered Himself as supreme offering for the sins of the world, He made a perfect atonement for the sins of the people of the world, cleansing us from all sins through His blood.

Quote:

NKJ Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood

And because we are now clean from sin that separates us from God, the separation or breach caused by sin between God and man is removed, and reconciliation is effected.

Quote:

Romans 5:10-11 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

God and man are once again reunited through Christ. This union of the Infinite with us mortals is best described in the allegory of the Body and the Head. Christ the Head, Jews and Gentiles the Body. On the cross, God fashioned humanity into the Body of His Son.

Quote:

NKJ Ephesians 2:14-16 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

God did this for man. Not an iota of human participation. We are in Christ, because of what God did for man.

Quote:

NASB John 6:44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

God attached us to His Son on the cross. When God raised Christ from the grave, He raised us up with Him, giving us new life (Eph 2:4-6), born again into a living hope (1 Pet 1:3), ready to live a life patterned after what the Head wants for His Body (Eph 4:15, 16), under the terms of the New Covenant (Heb 10:16, 17). Attached to Him Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13), we can do the will of Him (Matt 7:21) who works in us both to will and to do His good pleasure (Phil 2:12, 13), under the leading of the Holy Spirit (John 16:13; Rom 8:14). We can now believe, repent, decide to be baptized, etc.

We believe, NOT to be attched to Christ, but because we have been attached to Him.

This is the first dimension of the three dimensions of the pure gospel. (In the 2nd dimension of the gospel, we need to become overcomers, for overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). If we sin now, the sin committed having been forgiven on the cross is not imputed against us (2 Cor 5:18, 19). Christ, Who is our Intercessor in the heavenly sanctuary (Heb 7:25), our Advocate & Propitiation for sin (1 John 2:1, 2), continually justifies us because He was raised for our justification (Rom 4:25). But the sin committed is proof enough we are not overcomers yet. We must come to a point where when faced with the opportunity to commit sin, we choose to do good instead (Rom 12:21). In the 3rd dimension, when Christ comes to reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12), the overcomers will be rewarded with life eternal. All others will suffer the wrath of God and finally thrown into the lake of fire (Rom 2:5-11; Rev 20:15; 21:27)

In contrast, the false gospel teaches that man has to believe first to be attached to Christ. This is the brand of gospel being preached to the world now. It teaches the opposite of what Christ taught, that while separate from Him, man can do NOTHING (John 15:4, 5). It grabs the credit from God Who attached us to His Son without an iota of human participation; all grace. The false gospel transfers the credit to man, because had man not believed first, he cannot be attached to Christ. It teaches that while still dead, man can do something: he can believe. False gospel.

Christ said the pure gospel must be preached to all the world before He comes again. We need to leave the false gospel behind, and take up the pure gospel instead. Are we ready to answer the call, brethren?

In Christ,

Samie

[Gibs]

Yes Samie, He finished His work in this world but now He is doing the remaining Part in the Heavenly Sanctuary in Heaven. Remember the Lamb is not slain in the Sanctuary.

In this case the Sanctuary The LORD pitched and not man.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Bro jackson;

I pity you, brother. Study the Bible more. You really have to. You don't yet understand what the pure gospel is. It looks like the gospel you know is that which you have just been taught and which you could have eagerly swallowed, hook, line & sinker.

This is a perfect example of a man wresting scripture to his own destruction. "It is finished' cannot refer to the end of Christ's work for the salvation of mankind, for the scriptures are clear that his atoning work must now be carried out in heaven.

[Samie]

Yes Samie, He finished His work in this world but now He is doing the remaining Part in the Heavenly Sanctuary in Heaven...

[Gibs]

Your sins are not atoned for Samie until He applies His Blood to your account. He must plead His Blood to your case for remission and that is the work Our High Priest is doing now! That is done in the Heavenly of which here on earth was the teaching pattern!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Your sins are not atoned for Samie until He applies His Blood to your account. He must plead His Blood to your case for remission and that is the work Our High Priest is doing now! That is done in the Heavenly of which here on earth was the teaching pattern!

[ClubV12]

Samie I asked the moderators to consider your SPAM posts and take action. In particular your SPAMMING my thread on the 1st and 2nd ascension. Just stop with all this cluttering up the threads nonsense.