Dealing with those who have not experienced God

[Bravus]

Don't think it would really be appreciated here: few swear words, and extreme metal... but Strapping Young Lad's 'Love?' seems apposite...

when the singer growls: "This love is about ... CONTROL!"

[cardw]

Quote:

I have not seen evidence of evil.

I'm assuming the belief is held, the party who murdered those 20 little, ages 6,7, innocent children as well as the 7 adult caretakers who tried to intervene, in Connecticut some few months ago was not born of evil? Perhaps he had a good reason. And the reason/s was/were ______ ________ ___________ __________(fill in the blank/s).

God cares!

[cardw]

Quote:

Apparently God thought that an idiot was an appropriate leader of the angels.

"“You were the anointed cherub who covers;

I established you;

You were on the holy mountain of God;

You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,

Till iniquity was found in you.

“By the abundance of your trading

You became filled with violence within,

And you sinned;

Therefore I cast you as a profane thing

Out of the mountain of God;

And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,

From the midst of the fiery stones.

"Ezekiel 28:14-16 NKJV

It's really all about control. And the underlying principle is what is bringing this world down today, by the ones who wish to subvert the Creator's right to order the world with the same perfection by which He created Lucifer.

God cares!

I thought you said he wasn't the brightest bulb in Home Depot?

Which is it?

[cardw]

Quote:

Maybe both god and Satan should just butt out.

God (your Creator), is keeping you alive but I'm sure if you are willing to ask Him to butt out, seriously with full knowledge, not out of ignorance, He'll honor your request.

OTOH, if you ask the same thing of satan, don't count on it.

So, since Satan has clearly demonstrated his rebellion, how come he gets to do what he wants?

Obviously God isn't as powerful as he claims since he apparently has no control over Satan.

[M. T. Cross]

Ok,

If this is considered evil, what do you do with these inspired words of god celebrating the death of children?

Quote:

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

Quote:

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

Quote:

1 Samuel 15:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Quote:

Isaiah 13:15-18

New International Version (NIV)

15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;

all who are caught will fall by the sword.

16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;

their houses will be looted and their wives violated.

17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,

who do not care for silver

and have no delight in gold.

18 Their bows will strike down the young men;

they will have no mercy on infants,

nor will they look with compassion on children.

Oddly enough you don't find those verses pounded out from the pulpit very often......... ya know, because he is a loving God and all.......

God cares indeed

[M. T. Cross]

Don't think it would really be appreciated here: few swear words, and extreme metal... but Strapping Young Lad's 'Love?' seems apposite...

when the singer growls: "This love is about ... CONTROL!"

Excellent song

[cardw]

It's really all about control. And the underlying principle is what is bringing this world down today, by the ones who wish to subvert the Creator's right to order the world with the same perfection by which He created Lucifer.

God cares!

What perfection? Have you taken a look out there in the universe? There are galaxies on collision courses. Super Novas exploding into space destroying other planets and star systems. We have meteors flying around the solar system colliding with planets. Take a look at all the craters on the moon and there are a number of craters on the earth. Some of them are 100 miles in diameter.

If this is gods idea of perfection I think you worship an incompetent god.

[debbym]

Quote:

Apparently God thought that an idiot was an appropriate leader of the angels.

Apparently he has superior intelligence to human intelligence. angels are a higher creation then the creation of mankind. then God.

Without his relationship with his Creator in the place it was designed to be, he lost his balance of mind.

when this happens, the various faculties that were designed to work together harmoniously, other faculties begin to work over time to compensate for those faculties that are not working as before.

the enemy of truth began to suffer emotional pain as a result of his jealousy and pride. then he experienced a moral fall being separated from God, and began to project on God his own attributes. he began to see God through the lens of his fallen nature. and if he was willing for his selfish bent of thinking to be changed he could have been recovered.

but after being pleaded with he refused all grace, then could not be recovered.

and in his feeling sorry for himself drew the sympathies of 1/3 of the angels.

and through this experiment on earth, and seeing all the out workings of evil in every form of suffering... the universe sees fully played out the consequences of this rejection of God's mercy and patience and love.

moral reasoning is the ability of a certain part of the mind as is logical reasoning, both in balance give a person a picture of God. the various ways these two faculties integrate comprise a part of our individuality.

moral reasoning without logic is garish, as is logic without morality. moral reasoning recognizes the goodness of God logic acknowledges his power and wisdom. if you can only see the power of God and not his love and goodness then you not be able to turn to God, and would reject Him outright.

when the enemy of God lost his balance of mind, he lost a part of his integrated intelligence. he has a sense of what he has lost, but cannot bring himself to die to himself in order to love God, his self love is greater then his ability to love God. we do not know how many angels may have stepped back from God and reevaluated it and returned.

God's grace to us is offering us the power to place our self love below an implanted love for God. God is pure, and true, and kind, and patient, slow to anger but will not pass over rebellion forever. Is also a God of justice.

we can be thankful to God, and be in reverence, and in awe, not lose our motivation of Love. God is love and understanding this reintegrates our minds closer to how our minds worked before sin came into the human family.

[cardw]

Quote:

Apparently God thought that an idiot was an appropriate leader of the angels.

Apparently he has superior intelligence to human intelligence. angels are a higher creation then the creation of mankind. then God.

Without his relationship with his Creator in the place it was designed to be, he lost his balance of mind.

Except Satan hatched his plan early on.

So if Satan was created perfect, how come he hatched such an idiot plan?

What possible motivation would a perfect being have to rebel? You would have to be imperfect to rebel.

Perfect beings wouldn't be jealous, because jealousy is irrational. Perfect beings wouldn't be irrational. Perfect beings wouldn't strive for power because they would realize that power doesn't bring happiness.

Rebellion would require a flaw. The only rational reason to rebel is the injustice of one's leadership. And considering the violence ordered by god in the Old Testament and his blood lust for sacrifices including the torture and death of his own son, Satan may have a point.

Where is the evidence of god's love? There is no condemnation of slavery or child abuse in the Bible. In fact both are celebrated. I don't have to look very far in the Bible to find horrible violence endorsed and even ordered by god.

Why would any intelligent being want to worship that sicko?

[Igakusei]

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Where is the evidence of god's love?

The fact that we all haven't been struck down for some of the things we've done, said, and written, speaks volumes. At least, it does to me.

BTW, I'm the one who wrote that Satan isn't the brightest bulb at Home Depot.

...which is not to say, he isn't the most devious -- because he most certainly is. VOE

[cardw]

Quote:

Where is the evidence of god's love?

The fact that we all haven't been struck down for some of the things we've done, said, and written, speaks volumes. At least, it does to me.

BTW, I'm the one who wrote that Satan isn't the brightest bulb at Home Depot.

...which is not to say, he isn't the most devious -- because he most certainly is. VOE

So, with that reasoning, I must love you a lot because I haven't taken out a contract on you for disagreeing with me.

So, not killing people for disagreeing is evidence of love? Wow, the bar must be pretty low.

[Bravus]

I think I'd want a little more from a lover than refraining from killing me...

[Bravus]

This thread has been characterised as 'God-bashing'.

I dunno, maybe that's fair, but wasn't its purpose to find out how to reach those who do not know God?

Seems like the moral is, threats don't work. Those who don't know God fail to be (what seems to be assumed to be appropriately) terrified of God.

Without terror, and without *convincing* evidence for love... what have you got?

Stan's question was serious, and important... and it seems like some of the answers are not too palatable.

[cardw]

BTW, I'm the one who wrote that Satan isn't the brightest bulb at Home Depot.

Apparently LifeHiscost seemed to think this was hilarious because it required 6 laughing emoticons.

[LifeHiscost]

#618295 - Today at 00:26

Each of the examples presented reveals unsavory parts of man's history in which God recognizes ahead of time how the men, women, and children, lost to destruction, would eventually turn their utmost effort at destroying the safety of the two thirds of those in heaven who remained loyal, as well as any hope for those on earth who had no choice in their birthing here, who might one day, given the chance, gladly accept God's offer for them to live in His Kingdom with Him, He taking the responsibility to change their fallen nature into a new creation if they freely choose to trust His Word.

"Remember the former things of old,

For I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like Me,

Declaring the end from the beginning,

And from ancient times things that are not yet done,

Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,

And I will do all My pleasure,’"Isaiah 46:9-11 NKJV

God cares!

[Igakusei]

...if they freely choose to trust His Word.

I'll trust "His" word when it demonstrates itself to be trustworthy.

Wishful thinking and rampant unapologetic confirmation bias don't count.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

...if they freely choose to trust His Word.

I'll trust "His" word when it demonstrates itself to be trustworthy.

Wishful thinking and rampant unapologetic confirmation bias don't count.

I'm 100% with Igakusei here. The Bible does not demonstrate itself to be worthy of my trust at all.

And your continued triumphal announcements are frankly irritating. Like I said before, you seem to think there some kind of magic at work in quoting the Bible to us.

[cricket]

I did characterise this thread as God bashing. Though I did not name this thread. But I did. And it's okay, apparently to God bash. And Satan bash. And people bash. And angel bash. And teacher bash. And lawyer bash. And anyone and anything bash.

Bash away, bash away, bash away all!

[cardw]

I did characterise this thread as God bashing. Though I did not name this thread. But I did. And it's okay, apparently to God bash. And Satan bash. And people bash. And angel bash. And teacher bash. And lawyer bash. And anyone and anything bash.

Bash away, bash away, bash away all!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Interesting how one comes to a Christian forum and bashes God. And other members. Repeatedly. Yet is still accepted.

[cardw]

Interesting how one comes to a Christian forum and bashes God. And other members. Repeatedly. Yet is still accepted.

Disagreement is not persecution or bashing. If your ideas can't hold up to reason, then get better ideas.

[kailooa]

There is so much in this thread about how NOT to treat "those who have not experienced God." I find it so discouraging.

[Stan]

I totally agree Kailooa..

[debbym]

Quote:

Except Satan hatched his plan early on.

So if Satan was created perfect, how come he hatched such an idiot plan?

What possible motivation would a perfect being have to rebel? You would have to be imperfect to rebel.

Perfect beings wouldn't be jealous, because jealousy is irrational. Perfect beings wouldn't be irrational. Perfect beings wouldn't strive for power because they would realize that power doesn't bring happiness.

Rebellion would require a flaw. The only rational reason to rebel is the injustice of one's leadership. And considering the violence ordered by god in the Old Testament and his blood lust for sacrifices including the torture and death of his own son, Satan may have a point.

Where is the evidence of god's love? There is no condemnation of slavery or child abuse in the Bible. In fact both are celebrated. I don't have to look very far in the Bible to find horrible violence endorsed and even ordered by god.

Why would any intelligent being want to worship that sicko?

you have some major questions here. i do not know what you mean by the first comment hatched his plan early on, what is your time reference for this.

i think his self uplifting came long ago far before creation of earth. and i think he was cast out of heaven before our creation also.

i have heard some say he was not cast out until the crucifixion.

rebellion does not require a flaw in the authority rebelled against. We are not in a perfect world, we likely cannot form an idea of it even. Now rebellion against abusive authority is natural.

God understands that very well.

from what i have read Satan works to place his attributes over God's character so when people look at God they see him instead, in order to prevent other's from knowing God. then he transforms himself into an angel of light to seduce other's to serve him, when they think they are serving God.

when we start seeing these things as they are, the deceptions begin to fall from our eyes, and we can see God in His Goodness.

the Biblical records as they are stated capture briefly some things. like court records with witnesses, it is nothing like what really happened compared to the experience those who lived through the events hold. it is just what witnesses reported. People who were inspired wrote the Bible and they were certainly not going around deeply involved in social justice according to that definition in the 19th, or 20th, or 21st century.