Dealing with those who have not experienced God

[Bravus]

{nods}

[kailooa]

I deal with people who ridicule my faith a lot. I mostly just keep quiet. I figure if someone is mad at Christians they probably have a good reason or three and I'm not going to talk them out of it. I just try to be a good example when I can by treating people with love. One of the main things I pray for is that God will help me get better and better at that.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Stan

Keep in mind, that there is good evidence that humans are 'wired to worship'.

I have met some folks who deal with those with sarcasm and ridicule... like that will help.

IMHO the more insecure, the higher the sarcasm, that goes both ways.

Perhaps others have different experiences.

Since Jesus came to seek and save the lost, I've always wondered why some of the most critical of the professing members of the body of Christ, have left for other churches instead of staying to influence the ones who need strengthening for the love of Christ, hopefully expressed by example.

OTOH I don't necessarily find it easy to yield up my own ego for the sake of someone who would just as soon spit in my eye as wish me "good morning", although I cannot remember of more than three or four incidences happening like that in my 50 years of association with the body of believers in the Adventist church, those few evidenced by icy stare or abrupt rudeness.

God cares!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I deal with people who ridicule my faith a lot. I mostly just keep quiet. I figure if someone is mad at Christians they probably have a good reason or three and I'm not going to talk them out of it. I just try to be a good example when I can by treating people with love. One of the main things I pray for is that God will help me get better and better at that.

Good strategy, kailooa

I prefer to let my character and my demeanor show my faith more than my "preaching". I may preach a lot here, but this is a spiritual forum. I try to show concern for people by giving them time, engagement, and companionship. I usually don't "preach" unless they bring it up.

[kailooa]

Thumbs up, JoeMo!

[Gail]

[Igakusei]

Not that my opinion matters much around here as an ex-Christian, but I find people that follow the above approach (e.g. the three posters immediately above this post) to be far more Christlike than those who insist that they have the truth and I'm wrong.

If more Christians behaved like Gail and JoeMo in their interactions with those who don't share their beliefs, people like me would have far less to criticize.

[phkrause]

I deal with people who ridicule my faith a lot. I mostly just keep quiet. I figure if someone is mad at Christians they probably have a good reason or three and I'm not going to talk them out of it. I just try to be a good example when I can by treating people with love. One of the main things I pray for is that God will help me get better and better at that.

[JoeMo]

Thanks, Igakusei!

You just made my day! It's easy to share with folks like you because you are honest and open to dialogue!

[Gail]

Not that my opinion matters much around here as an ex-Christian, but I find people that follow the above approach (e.g. the three posters immediately above this post) to be far more Christlike than those who insist that they have the truth and I'm wrong.

If more Christians behaved like Gail and JoeMo in their interactions with those who don't share their beliefs, people like me would have far less to criticize.

Thanks, Igakusei. I really, genuinely LIKE people, and I need to be respectful of where they are at because that is how I have learned that God deals with me. He doesn't hit me over the head. He leads me on gently and makes me think a lot. He has a healing touch that I really appreciate.

I am sorry if you are not able to relate to what I just said, it doesn't matter. I send you a hug anyway. Because you have shared a bit of your journey, I can understand more.

You hear stories of how missionaries succeeded in areas that previously failed. How did they succeed? By taking on and identifying, as much as conscience would allow, with those they seek to love and share. That spoke a lot to me, too.

To me it just seems as common courtesy. It is how I would like to be treated if I was in your shoes. And that I had to learn, and am STILL learning. One day I may share my youth and we can think about that together, too.

The thing I must remember is that people are NOT junk. When I pray to see them as God sees them, I see their pain and their potential for good. I like to think the best of all.

This may be a different message than the Christians you know sent you and still send you. But I am convinced that love is the base for everything. It has to be...

And I also fight what you are fighting, in many ways. I work in a Christian environment and we all fail at times. But I have resolved to take all to God and bring about good for evil. I try, anyways. It is not always easy. Sometimes I have to bear negativity. But I believe in the end result, one of love overcoming.

[Gail]

Thanks, Igakusei!

You just made my day! It's easy to share with folks like you because you are honest and open to dialogue!

Amen! I echo this sentiment. Honesty means a lot to me, too.

Time for a group hug???

[JoeMo]

Right back at you, girl!

[LifeHiscost]

Right back at you, girl!

Seems like I remember a High and Mighty One who addressed His audience with these words, "you brood of vipers". And one highly regarded by Him, when the same was languishing in prison for speaking ill of the ruling authorities, He had this to say about him,"I tell you, of all who have ever lived, none is greater than John. Yet even the least person in the Kingdom of God is greater than he is!”"

That would seem to indicate more than meets the eye when the remnant of history fulfills all the Master expects of him/her in these latter days of earth's history.

"Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way."Luke 6:26 NASB

God cares!

[Stan]

I have seen those who deal with people, people of other faith, people seeking and people not caring about faith, with sarcasm..

Sooner or later most people seek out some form of God. AND a lot will depend on the experience of others.

[debbym]

Quote:

I do! The threat of God adding plagues to a person is definitely a curse to me.

It is not a threat Joemo, it is a promise.

there are consequences, moral consequences, spiritual consequences, physical consequences.

It is said truth is only real in it's consequences.

it is because consequences are delayed that the erring can be set in their erroneous course.

Yes mercy is an attribute of God, but also justice.

and as human beings we have a hard time knowing and showing the divine balance of those in our relationships.

scripture says do not reprove anyone who says their is no God. there is no purpose in it. it will only increase their misery.

those who believe there is a God, love reproof, and correction, to be more true and more loving, and more correct only increases their joy.

this verse is for those who believe yet choose to compromise the word of God. this is something believers should not willingly choose to do, their will be consequences for that.

[debbym]

Quote:

I'm on Lucifer's side since I can't produce a person who was raised from the dead and has disciples?

What?

I doubt you can produce someone who was raised from the dead and has disciples either. So I guess you're on Lucifer's side too.

sounds like you are playing with this person's faith Rich. what a poke in the eye.

troll? gentle trolling? there are all kinds of trolls, and all kinds of trolling... what do you believe about your posts,

do you ever troll? here? contrary to popular belief trolls can admit it. i have a master troll living in my house, i got the inside scoop lol. giglgil hee hee haw haw haw!!!!yaaa ha ha!!

needless to say.... trolling is an amazing skill.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

Maybe if you could produce someone that was dead and rose from the dead to take care of His adherents (disciples) before joining with Him when He came back the second time to get us, we might be more disposed to see reason in your effort to replace Him. But then again that was what Lucifer tried to do and it didn't turn out very well then, so I doubt very much that you would receive any better response from those who don't accept disloyalty to their King as any viable plan for life.

God cares!

I'm on Lucifer's side since I can't produce a person who was raised from the dead and has disciples?

What?

I doubt you can produce someone who was raised from the dead and has disciples either. So I guess you're on Lucifer's side too.

Good luck with that. You'll need it (Psalms 1).

[Bravus]

How is *Rich* the troll when he's just been accused of being in Lucifer's service?!

He turned the same language around on his accuser, very calmly and patiently.

I'll say it straight out, no trolling: LifeHisCost has exhibited horrendous arrogance in this thread.

Inability to see that is a form of blindness. And accusing his victims of trolling is bullying... at best.

[debbym]

Quote:

How is *Rich* the troll when he's just been accused of being in Lucifer's service?!

what would it matter to be described as being in lucifer's service if you see "lucifer" as being part of some kind of myth.

i don't see how you could say Rich was responding to feelings of insult or arrogance towards himself. if it is all just made up stuff to Rich it could have no meaning to him anyway.

i have not heard from Rich on this.

uhhh what if i was trolling... oh dear...

no i really am wondering.

i think life is not being arrogant i think that take on it is judging him.

calmly turning a believers words on a believer with flaming accusations when they do believe, and when you don't believe... well it is different, when you don't believe you are calm and have no feelings about it really...

so trolling happens when you are the calm one and the other person is the enflamed one... that is what it is all about.

so maybe no one has any feelings in these discussions... so maybe no trolling is really happening.. after all. duh!! i am so stupid.

is arrogance an emotional response? hmmm is arrogance in the eye of the beholder? hmmm i am so slow today. sorry.

[Bravus]

I'll let Rich speak for himself.

I will say, though, that if the goal of dealing with those who have not experienced God is introducing them to God, this thread demonstrates a few ways to succeed and many ways to fail.

If the goal is to convince them that God hates and rejects them, on the other hand... nice work.

[debbym]

Quote:

I'll let Rich speak for himself.

I will say, though, that if the goal of dealing with those who have not experienced God is introducing them to God, this thread demonstrates a few ways to succeed and many ways to fail.

If the goal is to convince them that God hates and rejects them, on the other hand... nice work.

interesting accusation.

i am really surprised to here this from you.

from what i understand God does not even hate Lucifer. i don't see where you are getting hating or rejecting people on here.

there are conflicts in beliefs systems here but hating and rejecting people... i have not seen it.

i am sorry i am really not getting this.

sigh.

i am very confident Rich will be able to very effectively speak for himself. He has shown no shortage of skill in communicating his perspective. He is nothing short of quite amazing in his skills.

[Bravus]

1 am here in the antipodes. If it wasn't, I might go back through the thread and copy and paste.

Perhaps, instead, go back and read LHC's posts with your blinkers off.

You say 'Rich doesn't believe' and that's true, but LHC does believe.

He's cursing away as hard as he can, from within his own framework. It is deeply hostile.

I'm trying to describe rather than accuse, but seriously. Read again, with empathy.

[kailooa]

I agree with Bravus, so much.

Basically people are trying to share their experiences, ask questions and discuss issues from conflicting viewpoints, and LifeHisCost stands on a figurative pedestal, unrolls a scroll, declaims some cherry-picked scripture, and exits. No consideration of the discussion points, let alone feelings, of the people who are trying to talk with LHC. And the scriptures are chosen specifically for their condemnation of anyone else's position. Sure, most may believe that the Bible is literally true and that these texts are the truth as applied to the discussion. But in what universe is shouting "THIS IS THE TRUTH, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT" while refusing to engage in human-to-human discussion considered loving or even polite?

[debbym]

Quote:

He's cursing away as hard as he can, from within his own framework. It is deeply hostile.

I'm trying to describe rather than accuse, but seriously. Read again, with empathy.

lets ask lhc how hostile he was, and let rich really level on how he was not using words to evoke any emotional responses which he could not predict.

textual communication is 10% of communication, missing all the tonal inflections and body language, we lose the other 90% of communication.

so with the 10% that is there, i cannot say lhc is hostile, nor can i understand if rich is knowingly communicating in a way to evoke emotional energies in those he disagrees with. i am sure they both could be capable of whatever. human beings are very capable of lots of things.

i will not project.

lhc does believe that there will be eternal consequences for rejecting God. this is plainly described in scripture, and i am sure he can share these scriptures without personally hating anyone.

"every eye shall see Christ, every knee shall bow," is another verse that shows something non believes might not have an appreciation for.

doesn't mean i am being arrogant, it is something given, in scripture.

i think both individuals are highly interesting and i value them.

the cursing thing, in biblical times, was specific between God and his own children, between a parent and a child. this is a different dynamic then between a believer and a non believer. So i cant see lhc was in any way handing off any kind of cursing or curses.

there is a text that says, even the angels of God do not rail satan. there is not even any cursing between angels of God and the leader of the rebellious angels who was expelled from heaven, who is accounted to be responsible for all the woe that has entered the universe. none.

[Tom Wetmore]

I agree with Bravus, so much.

Basically people are trying to share their experiences, ask questions and discuss issues from conflicting viewpoints, and LifeHisCost stands on a figurative pedestal, unrolls a scroll, declaims some cherry-picked scripture, and exits. No consideration of the discussion points, let alone feelings, of the people who are trying to talk with LHC. And the scriptures are chosen specifically for their condemnation of anyone else's position. Sure, most may believe that the Bible is literally true and that these texts are the truth as applied to the discussion. But in what universe is shouting "THIS IS THE TRUTH, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT" while refusing to engage in human-to-human discussion considered loving or even polite?

...and that is why I seldom read, much less respond to, posts that are just a bunch of quotes. Imagine having a face to face conversation with someone that only quoted stuff, or only responded with cliches and platitudes? How long would you pay attention or stick around to continue the conversation. (one reason for the inception of the Original Thoughts forum...)

From a non Judeo-Christian's POV, quoting scripture is the same thing.