Worship the Creator not the destroyer

[Lutz13]

Lutz :-)

When the snake first appeared it was a beautiful winged beast that deceived Eve.

When satan decieved in heaven, he still had his wings.

It is only when he revealed his venom that he could be destroyed.

A traitor has to be shown to be a traitor to be condemned.

Mark

And even today Satan still has his wings... What are you trying to say? Why is Satan still alive? Satan lost already! Yet he still lives? WHY?!

With your thinking, God should have fried Him already? Why hasn't He? Because Satan will do it to himself!

[Lutz13]

So Satan is covered by Gods grace?

Well, he obviously has some grace. He is still down here having us argue with each other lol...

[Twilight]

God has to protect His family??? THROUGH YOU!!! God help us!

I am not quite understanding your point here my friend?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Lutz :-)

When the snake first appeared it was a beautiful winged beast that deceived Eve.

When satan decieved in heaven, he still had his wings.

It is only when he revealed his venom that he could be destroyed.

A traitor has to be shown to be a traitor to be condemned.

Mark

And even today Satan still has his wings... What are you trying to say? Why is Satan still alive? Satan lost already! Yet he still lives? WHY?!

With your thinking, God should have fried Him already? Why hasn't He? Because Satan will do it to himself!

The analogy in the account of the fall in the garden of Eden goes quite deep.

Satan appeared as a beautiful creature.

But it is only when he is shown to be the snake, that his head can be crushed.

Who crushes his head by the way?

The seed of the woman.

Who is that seed?

Jesus...

God bless,

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

So Satan is covered by Gods grace?

Well, he obviously has some grace. He is still down here having us argue with each other lol...

I would say that that shows a lack of grace...

When grace is present, we will discuss, not argue. :-)

Mark

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

And even today Satan still has his wings... What are you trying to say? Why is Satan still alive? Satan lost already! Yet he still lives? WHY?!

With your thinking, God should have fried Him already? Why hasn't He? Because Satan will do it to himself! [/quote']

The analogy in the account of the fall in the garden of Eden goes quite deep.

Satan appeared as a beautiful creature.

But it is only when he is shown to be the snake, that his head can be crushed.

Who crushes his head by the way?

The seed of the woman.

Who is that seed?

Jesus...

God bless,

Mark

Lol...This is great. And how was he shown to be the snake? By the sacrifice of Christ! It was at the cross that Satan was finally revealed to man and unfallen worlds! The cross showed Satan as a liar, and a murderer! So who was doing all the killing in the OT? Jesus revealed who it was!!!

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Well' date=' he obviously has some grace. He is still down here having us argue with each other lol... [/quote']

I would say that that shows a lack of grace...

When grace is present, we will discuss, not argue. :-)

Mark

He is still alive by Gods grace. Otherwise why is he alive? Same reason we are still alive. Because God doesn't take life! He gives.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

So who was doing all the killing in the OT? Jesus revealed who it was!!!

It was the same one who put Jesus up on the cross...Why do you not see this?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

He is still alive by Gods grace. Otherwise why is he alive? Same reason we are still alive. Because God doesn't take life! He gives.

If God does not take life, we would all be immortal.

God cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and denied man access to immortality.

That is not "giving" life, that is denying access to that life.

Satan wanted access to that tree, so this was definitely an act of God.

It was a casting out, not a withdrawing.

Angels were guarding the entrance, was that Satan?

Gods very act of withdrawing grace is the death penalty.

Mark

[Lutz13]

Quote:

If God does not take life, we would all be immortal.

God cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and denied man access to immortality.

That is not "giving" life, that is denying access to that life.

Satan wanted access to that tree, so this was definitely an act of God.

It was a casting out, not a withdrawing.

Angels were guarding the entrance, was that Satan?

Gods very act of withdrawing grace is the death penalty.

Mark

And it was us who turned our backs on Christ and gave this world to Satan.

"And the devil said to Him 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I will give it to whomever I wish.'" --Luke 4:6

By giving into Satan we give power to Satan. Satan is the one who injected death into his world which used to be our world that we handed over to him.

Even Jesus recognizes who the lord of this world is.

"I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler(chief, prince, magistrate, chiefest) of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me" --John 14:30

There is much more to the story than you think. Sadly you have shown you are not willing to accept this message. It is your choice. I do not have it in me to keep walking this circle. I have presented clear evidence to show that our Creator is innocent of all charges! Though Jesus presented this evidence on the cross.

I'm done walking this circle with you. I've told God I haven't the patience for it! God bless.

[Robert]

Oh, you mean, Satan is immortal? I thought God only "hath immotalality (1 Tim. 6:15, 16)." Now I'm confused! Thank you!

Prepare to meet God!

According to EGW Satan is aging....Just fyi....

[Robert]

So Satan is covered by Gods grace?

Matt 5:45 "He [God] causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. "

Satan lives because God's blessing are on both the just and the unjust.

[Robert]

Gal 6:7,8

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction...."

Sin pays in death....If you live for your nature as a lifestyle (as does Satan) sin will kill you.

1 Corinthians 15:56

"For sin is the sting that results in death[sin kills], and the law gives sin its power."

Romans 6:23

"For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Sin kills. Sin is the killer. Reject Christ and His righteousness and you are inviting sin to destroy you. Sin will kill you. Sin causes diseases. Sin causes natural calamities....The devil causes harm....He is sin incarnate. Men kill men....Why? Sin....Sin is the killer.

Rob

[BobRyan]

And in cases like the flood, Sodom and Gomorah, Korah, Achan, the idolaters a Sinai, Annanias and Saphira, the Lake of Fire ... it is "God Himself".

[BobRyan]

When people ask me if I accept Ellen White as a valid prophet - I say "yes".

When they ask me to show what SHE said about the Lake of Fire and the 2nd death -- I point to these places where she actually speaks directly to that point.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post242564

Others simply avoid it. But why?

in Christ,

Bob

[Lutz13]

When people ask me if I accept Ellen White as a valid prophet - I say "yes".

When they ask me to show what SHE said about the Lake of Fire and the 2nd death -- I point to these places where she actually speaks directly to that point.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post242564

Others simply avoid it. But why?

in Christ,

Bob

Yet you avoid the text that contradicts her other text. Why?

[Twilight]

Quote:

If God does not take life, we would all be immortal.

God cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and denied man access to immortality.

That is not "giving" life, that is denying access to that life.

Satan wanted access to that tree, so this was definitely an act of God.

It was a casting out, not a withdrawing.

Angels were guarding the entrance, was that Satan?

Gods very act of withdrawing grace is the death penalty.

Mark

And it was us who turned our backs on Christ and gave this world to Satan.

"And the devil said to Him 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I will give it to whomever I wish.'" --Luke 4:6

By giving into Satan we give power to Satan. Satan is the one who injected death into his world which used to be our world that we handed over to him.

Even Jesus recognizes who the lord of this world is.

"I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler(chief, prince, magistrate, chiefest) of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me" --John 14:30

There is much more to the story than you think. Sadly you have shown you are not willing to accept this message. It is your choice. I do not have it in me to keep walking this circle. I have presented clear evidence to show that our Creator is innocent of all charges! Though Jesus presented this evidence on the cross.

I'm done walking this circle with you. I've told God I haven't the patience for it! God bless.

Is "patience" not a fruit of the Spirit my friend?

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: WilloMar

Oh, you mean, Satan is immortal? I thought God only "hath immotalality (1 Tim. 6:15, 16)." Now I'm confused! Thank you!

Prepare to meet God!

According to EGW Satan is aging....Just fyi....

Do you remember where you saw that quote Robert?

I would like to look at it.

Mark

[Twilight]

Gal 6:7,8

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction...."

Sin pays in death....If you live for your nature as a lifestyle (as does Satan) sin will kill you.

1 Corinthians 15:56

"For sin is the sting that results in death[sin kills], and the law gives sin its power."

Romans 6:23

"For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Sin kills. Sin is the killer. Reject Christ and His righteousness and you are inviting sin to destroy you. Sin will kill you. Sin causes diseases. Sin causes natural calamities....The devil causes harm....He is sin incarnate. Men kill men....Why? Sin....Sin is the killer.

Rob

I am still not sure how Satan is going to cause everyone to suffer the exact punishment for each of their sins...?

Including himself...

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Gal 6:7,8

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction...."

Sin pays in death....If you live for your nature as a lifestyle (as does Satan) sin will kill you.

1 Corinthians 15:56

"For sin is the sting that results in death[sin kills], and the law gives sin its power."

Romans 6:23

"For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Sin kills. Sin is the killer. Reject Christ and His righteousness and you are inviting sin to destroy you. Sin will kill you. Sin causes diseases. Sin causes natural calamities....The devil causes harm....He is sin incarnate. Men kill men....Why? Sin....Sin is the killer.

Rob

I am still not sure how Satan is going to cause everyone to suffer the exact punishment for each of their sins...?

Including himself...

He is the author of sin and death, right? God, to a large degree, has been holding things together in this sin ravaged world. He's the little boy with his finger in the dike until someone runs him off.

You see God does not force His love on others. It's against His very nature. As I've said before, agape doesn't coerce....

I can't figure out why you insists on a god who is more cruel than Hitler? Do you realize that both in Sodom & Gomorrah and the flood infants perished? What was their crime? Yes, they were sinners (like you and I), but they didn't understand their situation. When the great waters came they slowly drowned. It's like taking a 2 year old and drowning him/her in your bathtub. And in Sodom & Gomorrah they were slowly burned to death. And you say God does this? That sounds like a sickness to me....

I guess god didn't finish this little boy off?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I am still not sure how Satan is going to cause everyone to suffer the exact punishment for each of their sins...?

Including himself...

He is the author of sin and death, right? God, to a large degree, has been holding things together in this sin ravaged world. He's the little boy with his finger in the dike until someone runs him off.

You see God does not force His love on others. It's against His very nature. As I've said before, agape doesn't coerce....

I can't figure out why you insists on a god who is more cruel than Hitler? Do you realize that both in Sodom & Gomorrah and the flood infants perished? What was their crime? Yes, they were sinners (like you and I), but they didn't understand their situation. When the great waters came they slowly drowned. It's like taking a 2 year old and drowning him/her in your bathtub. And in Sodom & Gomorrah they were slowly burned to death. And you say God does this? That sounds like a sickness to me....

I guess god didn't finish this little boy off?

Hello Robert :-)

Your emotive argument does not answer the question I posed:

I am still not sure how Satan is going to cause everyone to suffer the exact punishment for each of their sins...?

Including himself...

I know you feel very strongly about this "truth", but if you cannot deal with this and other simple questions, then people are not going to accept your position, or your presentation of your position.

Mark :-)

[Lutz13]

Quote:

Is "patience" not a fruit of the Spirit my friend?

Yes it is. Do I have patience? Up to a certain point. Yet when you prove my point, I think it is time for me to just shrug it off and move on.

Just to repeat so that you know where I am coming from.

You asked the question if a snake was in my kids room would it be evil to kill it.

You are bringing God down to your level because you assume it would be ok. Yet God knew all along that Satan was a snake. That Satan would sin. Yet God made him, and God didn't kill him. Just because you would, doesn't mean God would.

So in your analogy, Satan = the snake. God = you. You would have killed it. But we know God didn't. So you are bringing God down to your human thinking which proves my point. You want God to be just like you. Which He never will! And that is why I thank God that He is God and not you! My God doesn't share traits with the god of this world. My God died on a cross to show how much He loves me.

It is like this, and this is how I will understand the people that do not understand this.

"They will put you out of the synagogues; yes , the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me." --John 16:2-3

The Hebrews of old did the same thing. Killed in the name of God thinking they were doing God a service. When in reality they were doing service for the lord of this world. Yet there is something that separates us from them. That is Jesus revealed what He was like. They didn't know, and couldn't know because the ruler of this world had them so blind they couldn't see. History has a funny way of repeating itself.

"Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." --John 8:43-44

So excuse me for not accepting that Jesus is a hypocrite. Excuse me for not accepting that God is a liar. Excuse me for not accepting that God is going to kill me if I do not worship Him. Excuse me for not bowing down to a murderer/killer.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

I am still not sure how Satan is going to cause everyone to suffer the exact punishment for each of their sins...?

Do you know what God looks like? Didn't think so. Not all things will be known until it happens.

[BobRyan]

Hello Robert :-)

Your emotive argument does not answer the question I posed:

I am still not sure how Satan is going to cause everyone to suffer the exact punishment for each of their sins...?

Including himself...

I know you feel very strongly about this "truth", but if you cannot deal with this and other simple questions, then people are not going to accept your position, or your presentation of your position.

Mark :-)

Indeed. That is the "innexplicable" point in their argument.

Sometimes called "a big red flag".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

When people ask me if I accept Ellen White as a valid prophet - I say "yes".

When they ask me to show what SHE said about the Lake of Fire and the 2nd death -- I point to these places where she actually speaks directly to that point.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post242564

Others simply avoid it. But why?

in Christ,

Bob