Musicman1228 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 God was the one that was going to send the flood to destroy the world to punish the irretrievable wickedness of the nations. Noah was the only righteous man on earth. Noah was not to be held accountable for anything other than building the ark and provisioning it. God brought the animals into the ark. There was no need for giving a warning to the populations of the world because the cup of their iniquity was completely filled. There was no redemptive quality to the flood, it was totally punitive. That is why Jesus Christ said that no one knew that the flood was coming until it carried them all away. No matter how hard you try you cannot get Jesus to unsay what He said. Jesus said they didn't know, so they didn't know. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 C'mon Robert. How can you not see the love in those text? What is wrong with you?! I'm just wondering, Lutz13, what you believe happens to the wicked when they are at last excluded from the kingdom of heaven? Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 God was the one that was going to send the flood to destroy the world to punish the irretrievable wickedness of the nations. Is 54:7 For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with great compassion I will gather you. 8 In overflowing wrath for a moment I hid my face from you, but with everlasting love I will have compassion on you, says the Lord, your Redeemer. 9 This is like the days of Noah to me Quote
Lutz13 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: Lutz13 C'mon Robert. How can you not see the love in those text? What is wrong with you?! I'm just wondering, Lutz13, what you believe happens to the wicked when they are at last excluded from the kingdom of heaven? Regards! People will reap what they have sown in their hearts. There is a point where they see the truth. "Those who see you will gaze at you, and consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness and destroyed its cities, who did not open the house of his prisoners.'"(Isaiah 14:16-17) That verse refers to Satan. Once truth is revealed to them, they look upon Satan(who claims to be their god) and know they were deceived. After they are raised up, in Revelation we see him going out to deceive the nations once again. How will he do this? It would be very easy. As they are raised up, who is right there taking credit? Satan as an angel of light claiming to be their god. "Will you still say before him who slays you, 'I am a god'? but you shall be a man, and not a god in the hand of him who slays you."(Ezekiel 28:9) Those very seeds that he planted will come against him. Does he just stand there, or fight back? Because him, and his followers have not changed. He is full of pride and will fight back destroying himself in the process. Satan is the one who uses fire to destroy. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 God used fire to destroy the altar on Mt. Carmel when Elijah prayed. God DID NOT allow Satan to use fire to consume the altar to Ba-al. God is never in conflict with Themselves and we should not attempt to make that so. In spite of all your 'proofs' Robert, God will destroy the wicked because the wicked contain sin and it is God that destroys sin when He brings fire to the earth to wipe away all vestiges of sin. He then remakes the earth and puts it back in its original condition. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven1 and consumed them, Rev.20:9. It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of1 the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, Rev.13:13-14. Who is it that ALLOWS Satan to send fire? That can only be the God of Heaven. Robert, you don't need to try so hard to show that God is a God of Love, we all know that. God loves us so much that He will eradicate sin from the universe so that we can live in righteousness and peace forever. Amen. Quote
Robert Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Quote: God will destroy the wicked because the wicked contain sin You and I contain sin.... Quote: And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven [the sky/atmosphere] and consumed them, Rev.20:9. God releases...He pulls back. The doors are shut and the wicked are abandoned. The earth then falls apart.... Quote
Guest WilloMar Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Pro-Israel, and anti-Israel, are expressions of the world. We must receive the love of Christ into our hearts, and then, and only then, can we love all of mankind equally. Then we, like He, will not value anyone, or any group, more than any other: “for there is no partiality with God:” Rom. 2:11, N. A. S. B., Acts 10:34, 1 Pet. 1:17, etc. Why is it so hard for people to understand that there are two Gods contending for our loyalty? Ever since Adam and Eve sinned by turning their loyalty from their Creator to the serpent, Satan became the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). Jesus called him the prince (John 12:31), or ruler, of this world. Now, since we know that the Creator God has no partiality, or favoritism, towards any sinner, or group of sinners, we must conclude that it was Satan who chose Israel as his special people/nation. It’s been said that God didn’t allow Satan to bring fire down to consume the offering made to Baal, but they forget that Satan is the deceiver. And what did the deceiver do, he brought fire down to consume the lord’s (his own) offering, but not Baal’s (his own) offering. Pretty slick, huh! When Adam and Eve turned their backs on the Creator, by choosing to follow the destroyer, they gave this earth, the dominion the Creator had given them (Gen. 1:26-28), to Satan and he turned their paradise into his world of grief. Thus they became citizens of this world, and the enemy of God (James 4:4). We, too, have inherited that nature of being enemies of the Creator, because our ways are not like His ways (Isa. 55:8, 9). Christ’s loving character is foreign to us. This is why we tend to lower the Creator’s sinless nature to be like our sinful nature ---- we sinners are more comfortable with a god who is like us. Therefore we tend to bring God’s character down to our level, rather than have Him bring our character up to His level. This is where the “spiritual condition” of this world is exposed: All religions, “of this world,” worship the god “of this world,” while believing they’re worshipping the Creator of “heaven and earth (Gen. 1:1).” They’re confusing Christ the Creator with Satan the destroyer (John 10:10, also Heb. 2:14). They’re following “The Beast” who has Adulterated Holiness with Wickedness (Contaminated the Spiritual with the Worldly), and that is Babylon: Spiritual Confusion! The confusion is ---- WHO GOD IS! We must prepare for the Day of the Lord Quote
LifeHiscost Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 C'mon Robert. How can you not see the love in those text? What is wrong with you?! "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie" 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 NKJV "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."Mark 13:22 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 God loves us so much that He will eradicate sin from the universe so that we can live in righteousness and peace forever. Amen. Your view of god talking to you: Since you are not perfect (see 1 John 1:8) I'm going to do you a favor and set you on fire. I'll need some matches and gasoline. Just keep in mind as the flames torment your body that I love you, man....It's nothing personal. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Robert, then you do not believe that God is just? Didn't Jesus say that IF we repent of our sins that God is just and will remove them--completely? Is not that 'perfect'? Might want to check out the life of King David for evidence proving this issue. Quote
Guest WilloMar Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 To all of you who read these posts, but don’t take part in the banter, keep searching for truth in spite of those whom merely try to outdo the others in an intellectual battle of, so called, wits. I’m a Seventh-day Adventist, although I’m not sure for how long, and I pray that I’ll belong to the Spiritual Church one day. Some snigger and roll their eyes when someone mentions a “Spiritual Church,” but I think that’s because they think a spiritual church is invisible. And you can’t let your light shine if you’re invisible, right? But that’s not true. The spiritual church is simply those who love and obey the Lord in their hearts and minds: Their whole being is dedicated to Him and only Him. Therefore they of the spiritual church are not a "Pomp and Circumstance" kind of people. Rather, they’re of a humble character of Christ-likeness. Not outward show, but an inward glow from the light that “streams from the cross of Calvary (GW 315).” God’s true church is, and has always been, love developed in the heart for everyone. And that is not the condition of the visible S.D.A. Church today. The organizational church of today is making our Saviour sick to His stomach: “I will spue/spit/ vomit thee out of My mouth (Rev. 3:16).” Why is the true Witness feeling sick to His stomach? Verses 15 and 16 explain, “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm...I will spue thee out of My mouth.” I’ve heard people say that that means we should be hot for the Lord. Well, that’s true, but what about the cold, does the Lord want us to be cold? No, that’s ridiculous. So, what does it mean? It simply means, the organizational church is comfortable, content and satisfied ---- and lifeless. Here are some quotes from Sister White: “New light will ever be revealed on the word of God to him who is in living connection with the Sun of Righteousness. Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed. The diligent, prayerful seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the word of God. Many gems are yet scattered that are to be gathered together to become the property of the remnant people of God.” (Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34. [1892]) “There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. (Review and Herald, December 20, 1892) “A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, ‘We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God.’ But we are not safe when we take a position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God's word for truth. ‘Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.’ Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for ‘the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.’ --Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. CW 34, 35 We must prepare to meet our God! Quote
Robert Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Robert, then you do not believe that God is just? Didn't Jesus say that IF we repent of our sins that God is just and will remove them--completely? Is not that 'perfect'? Perfect only "in Christ"..... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted July 1, 2009 Moderators Posted July 1, 2009 Pro-Israel, and anti-Israel, are expressions of the world. We must receive the love of Christ into our hearts, and then, and only then, can we love all of mankind equally. Then we, like He, will not value anyone, or any group, more than any other: “for there is no partiality with God:” Rom. 2:11, N. A. S. B., Acts 10:34, 1 Pet. 1:17, etc. And how do you know this is talking about the REAL God and not Satan? Quote: Why is it so hard for people to understand that there are two Gods contending for our loyalty? Ever since Adam and Eve sinned by turning their loyalty from their Creator to the serpent, Satan became the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). Jesus called him the prince (John 12:31), or ruler, of this world. Now, since we know that the Creator God has no partiality, or favoritism, towards any sinner, or group of sinners, we must conclude that it was Satan who chose Israel as his special people/nation. So now, Elijah, God's prophet, or was he Satan's prophet? prays to God, or was it Satan he was praying to? And Satan answers and brings down fire from heaven? Quote: It’s been said that God didn’t allow Satan to bring fire down to consume the offering made to Baal, but they forget that Satan is the deceiver. And what did the deceiver do, he brought fire down to consume the lord’s (his own) offering, but not Baal’s (his own) offering. Pretty slick, huh! Friend, are you on something? Quote
Lutz13 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Quote: So now, Elijah, God's prophet, or was he Satan's prophet? prays to God, or was it Satan he was praying to? And Satan answers and brings down fire from heaven? "And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?' But He turned and rebuked them, and said, 'You do not know what manner of spirit you are of"(Luke 9:54-55) It clearly didn't come from the Creator. Quote
Members phkrause Posted July 1, 2009 Members Posted July 1, 2009 That's exactly what he's saying Rob. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
LifeHiscost Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator? Did anyone say yes? Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
teresaq Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 And if it's not, can the individual's actions make a difference? "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. "1 Corinthians 3:17 NKJV i dont understand the question. how do you mean can the individuals actions make a difference? in what way? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
BobRyan Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator? Did anyone say yes? Regards! Cancer must go. Is cutting, pain and surgery innevitable by a loving surgeon -- if you are a cancer patient? The world has cancer. some will choose the path of a "miracle" and be born again as healthy cells. some will choose the knife. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
LifeHiscost Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 Why should God wish to change when He promised destruction from the very beginning of all of those that are against Him?You belabour or confuse a point that is simple to understand. God does not change! When He said (in the beginning) that He will bring death for disobedience, why do you wish to imply that I say that He changed or has to change to fulfill His promise (of DESTRUCTION)? While this is an old post, I would like to clarify a point re: to the underlined above. If you'll recall that promise from Genesis, God did not say He would destroy the person who ate of the fruit from the tree. He said, "...Thou shalt surely die." If one is warned by the highway department to drive at 30 miles per hour around a certain corner and I choose to ignore the warning and die when driving 60 miles per hour and turn my vehicle over, is it logical to say I was punished by the highway department for not following their instruction? Just so, can we in our limited understanding, when we choose to ignore the instructions given for our safety, not to mention the safety of those around us, then claim it was all God's fault and now He's going to kill me. What kind of convoluted thinking is that? Just asking! Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Guest Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 I see what you are saying. Sinful man left to his own devises, will destroy himself, yes? Quote
LifeHiscost Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 Actual destruction will never take place. "For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. "Isaiah 28:22,23 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 So, I will drop this once someone can explain to me, why on earth God needs to raise up the people He supposedly fried to death at Sodom and Gomorrah. Or all the people He drowned in the flood, just to kill them all over again. Maybe this has been answered somewhere else on this thread but I'd like to add my thought to the issue. First, when one dies it means no more life, life which can only come from God as He is Life. For the avowed rebel his future is not frying forever. It is oblivion. Or as described by some: " Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;" Psalm 13:3 KJV Now if King David, a person called a man after God's own heart, saw death as burning in a fiery hell, would a sleep be the words he would use re: death? And as far as the final determination of those who freely choose God because they know Him, this is probably the best place to describe God's desire for them. "...that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. " John 3:15-17 NKJV Notice the prerequisite for not perishing, and who is described as the recipients. Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Guest Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: oldsailor29 Actual destruction will never take place. "For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. "Isaiah 28:22,23 KJV Regards! oldsailor believes that everyone is going to be saved. He and I have debated this. He says God wants to save everyone, and God gets what he wants. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 I see what you are saying. Sinful man left to his own devises, will destroy himself, yes? Yes, Richard, that is what I'm saying, but it doesn't answer all of the questions why God would raise to life the rebellious, just to send them back to the grave. This would take me too much time tonight to explain thoroughly, but in a nutshell, it is for the ones that are with Jesus when He comes back the third time with the New Jerusalem, nailing down the truth in the minds for those who will be with Him for the rest of eternity, they will see that the finally impenitent and unrepentant would never change their minds about the mercy and patience of God were they given a million years to choose differently. There are many Scriptures that bear this out but I'm late for an appointment with my wife so will pursue this later, maybe tomorrow. God's blessing! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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