Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator?

[Guest]

The Bible says the Fire comes from God, and so does EGW.

"It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. {EW 52}

Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. This was the execution of the judgment. The wicked then received according as the saints, in unison with Jesus, had meted out to them during the one thousand years. The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. {EW 54}

"Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. {GC 672}

[skyblue888]

The Bible says the Fire comes from God, and so does EGW.

"It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. {EW 52}

Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. This was the execution of the judgment. The wicked then received according as the saints, in unison with Jesus, had meted out to them during the one thousand years. The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. {EW 54}

"Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. {GC 672}

Richard, we know all about this language but here Mrs. White is not explaining it, she is simply using the same language that the Bible uses. She does it all the time but here and there in her writings are statements that explain this type of language.

Before we go any further, I would like for you to take a look at my last post dealing with God's strange act.

Thank you.

sky

[Lutz13]

"It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. {EW 52}

Ah ha! Now the wrath of God I am familiar with. I love using Saul because it makes it oh so clear. "...Therefore Saul took a sword and fell on it."(1 Samuel 31:4) "I gave you a king(Saul) in My anger, and took him(Saul) away in My wrath"(Hosea 13:11) Since God never changes, neither does His wrath. As for the rest of your post. I do not really know.

[Guest]

I did, and even in the quote you used {PP 139} ascribes the destruction to GOD.

The 2nd quote is not talking about destruction.

Man does not even have the power to do what is described. Not only the whole earth is going to be burned up, but the elements are going to melt. The sun, the moon etc. This whole solar system will be destroyed.

[skyblue888]

I did, and even in the quote you used {PP 139} ascribes the destruction to GOD.

The 2nd quote is not talking about destruction.

Man does not even have the power to do what is described. Not only the whole earth is going to be burned up, but the elements are going to melt. The sun, the moon etc. This whole solar system will be destroyed.

Yes of course the Lord will do a thorough work of cleansing but the fire that destroys the wicked will not come directly out from the Lord. There is a vast difference here when it comes to God purifying the earth with that fire after Satan and all the wicked are destroyed. Remember Richard, "God destroys no man." C.O.L.85.

The Bible says that Saul killed himself with a sword and yet in the very same chapter it says that God slew him. See 1 Chronicles 10:4,14.

God did not lay a finger on Saul and yet the language is that "God slew him."

Get it Richard?

It is the same with the fire that the Bible says comes down from heaven to destroy the wicked at the end. What is your explanation to Job 1:16? It does say there that the fire of God fell from heaven to destroy Job's possessions and even his servants but in the book The Great Controversy we read that Satan was behind that fire.

Ever read that statement?

sky

[Guest]

Up until now God has pretty much let man destroy himself, except in a few cases. But then it will be different. That's why it is called his strange act.

The quotes I used were Ellen White's words. If the language of the Bible was inacurate, she would have pointed that out, but instead, she said the Fire comes from God.

Uzza was struck dead by God. Who will you try to pin that one on?

[skyblue888]

Up until now God has pretty much let man destroy himself, except in a few cases. But then it will be different. That's why it is called his strange act.

The quotes I used were Ellen White's words. If the language of the Bible was inacurate, she would have pointed that out, but instead, she said the Fire comes from God.

Uzza was struck dead by God. Who will you try to pin that one on?

Richard, no, no, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And it is written that "the principles of His dealing with men are ever the same." G.C.343.

It will not be diffrent in the end. It will still be the truth that "Eveil shall slay the wicked." Ps.34:21. The language of the Bible is not inaccurate Richard. It is our understanding of it that is inaccurate.

What is your explanation of Job 1:16? It does say there that the fire of God fell from heaven and it destroyed all of Job's possessions including his servants. But the pen of inspiration is quick to say that it was Satan who was behind that fire.

What do you say?

sky

[Woody]

Good one Richard. But I doubt he will explain that one.

[skyblue888]

Red, wait before you shoot yourself in the foot again!!!

[Woody]

My feet are fine ... thanks for your concern.

[skyblue888]

We will see! :)

[Woody]

Well bring it on. What's the wait for?

[skyblue888]

Richcard, please Read Job 1:16 which says that the fire of God fell from heaven and then read verses 9-12. Verse 12 says, "So the Lord said to Satan, 'Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not lay a hand on his person.' Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord." And then in verse 16 it says that the fire of God fell from heaven!

Do you see that Richard? All that Job had was in Satan's power to destroy but he was not allowed to touch his person. The fire did not come out directly from the Lord but from Satan.

sky

[Guest]

I'll wait till you guys get through.

[skyblue888]

Who? What do you mean Richard? It is about you checking Job 1:9 to 16 and see for yourself whether what I have said is true or not. Please Richard. Do not wait to see if others can see this before you believe. If you do, you will go on in darkness! So please Richard, check these references for yourself.

Do not be afraid. This is a deep subject and it is important that we understand the principles underlying it. We need every ray of light that the Lord sends to us.

sky

[Guest]

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Job 1:16

Read the text. Someone else SAID the fire came from god. That is not the case with what we are discussing.

Ellen White does not correct the Bible. Ever. She only makes it plainer.

[Guest]

Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. ....The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. {EW 54}

You said the fire that purified everything was different. It is not.

[skyblue888]

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Job 1:16

Read the text. Someone else SAID the fire came from god. That is not the case with what we are discussing.

Ellen White does not correct the Bible. Ever. She only makes it plainer.

I didn't say she corrected the Bible but that she sheds light on it. There is a vast difference. She explains that language so that we do not misinterpret God's actions and you are right in saying that she always makes it plainer.

"Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them." G.C.589.

You say that the case of Job is different. It is not so much the case of Job we are talking about but the language of the Bible. Job 1:16 does not differ in any way from the language of the book of Revelation. It is always the fire of God falling from heaven to destroy. The language of the Bible is consistent and it is not left to private interpretation.

sky

[skyblue888]

Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. ....The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. {EW 54}

You said the fire that purified everything was different. It is not.

No Richard, I didn't say that. Once that fire which will come from the very midst of the wicked (see Ezekiel 28:18) will have finally taken care of them and they are completely destroyed, that same fire will be used to purify the earth. At that point that fire is used to cleanse, not to destroy the wicked. They are already dead. Remember Richard, this principle is always true: "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." G.C.36. It does not matter if it is at the time of Sodom and Gomorrah or even at the time of the flood or at the end of the days. That principle is always true because God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever! "The principles of His dealing with men are ever the same." G.C.343.

sky

[teresaq]

Quote:

"God's great and strange work is to redeem and save and thus repair the ruin that sin has made." Review and Herald, Vol.3, p.583.

thanks for this quote. for real. i didnt know about it.

arent you glad i dont hold grudges?

but i never forget. :)

[Guest]

You do not see that in Job, the Bible is not ascribing the fire to God, but that it is a bystander?

[skyblue888]

Quote:

"God's great and strange work is to redeem and save and thus repair the ruin that sin has made." Review and Herald, Vol.3, p.583.

thanks for this quote. for real. i didnt know about it.

arent you glad i dont hold grudges?

but i never forget.

Yes of course I am glad and I don't hold grudges either, and, like you, i don't forget either! hehehe

Thanks Teresaq

[Guest]

And any fire that man can start, will not be sufficient to burn up the whole solar system.

The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. {EW 54}

She does not mince words here. She says the fire comes from GOD.

[skyblue888]

Okay Richard, we know that fire will have the best of Satan in the end. In some places in the Bible and in the SOP we read that fire from God out of heaven will consume him. In another place (Ezekiel 28:18) it says there that the Lord will bring fire from his midst and it will devoure him and he will be turned into ashes upon the earth and will be no more.

We just need to understand that language.

"I was shown that the judgments of God would not come direclty out from the Lord upon them, but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection." MR, Vol.14, 3.1.

This is always true Richard, yesterday, today, and forever.

sky

It is not only the solar system that will be removed.

[skyblue888]

There are a couple verses in the Bible that say that "God hardened Pharaoh's heart." God did not directly harden his heart. It is just a language that we need to understand. It simply means that when God sends light to soften our hearts and we resist that light, there is a hardening that takes place which makes it more difficult to accept that same light when He sends it the second time. It is only in that sense that the Bible says that God hardens a man's heart.

"It is not God that blinds the eyes of men or hardens their hearts. He sends them light to correct their errors, and to lead them in safe paths; it is by the rejection of this light that the eyes are blinded and the heart hardened. Often the process is gradual, and almost imperceptible. Light comes to the soul through God's word, through His servants, or by the direct agency of His Spirit; but when one ray of light is disregarded, there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions, and the second revealing of light is less clearly discerned. So the darkness increases, until it is night in the soul. Thus it had been with these Jewish leaders. They were convinced that a divine power attended Christ, but in order to resist the truth, they attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan. In doing this they deliberately chose deception; they yielded themselves to Satan, and henceforth they were controlled by his power." D.A.322.

This statement says that it is not God that hardens a man's heart and yet the language of the Bible says that He hardened Pharaoh's heart!

sky