When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[wayfinder]

Yes she knew, Adam told her.

I said this because John317 is stating what he knows for sure, that I am here to deceive everyone through kindness and love, like what the devil did to Eve.

[wayfinder]

Mt 12:30 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

[Richard Holbrook]

Check this out:

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4IjxRY...;q=&f=false

Good book John

[John317]

I knew the author well. He went to sleep in Jesus almost exactly one year ago.

Two others of his books:

https://www.anchormin.net/~anchormi/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=64

http://amapedia.amazon.com/view/Victory+on+the+Battlefield:+Setting+Captives+Free/id=980507

[Richard Holbrook]

Thanks

[Richard Holbrook]

Hey John, how come the photo section won't work for me?

[John317]

There's a problem with it, and I am not sure how to fix it. It's been a problem for quite a while. I'll ask Stan if he can help us with it, but I am not sure if he can. It may have to do with with the servers.

I assume you are unable to post some photographs in the photo section, is that right?

[Richard Holbrook]

Yes thats right

[Richard Holbrook]

Well at least I know it's not just me.

[Musicman1228]

John317,

Am I understanding this correctly that you think someone (in this case wayfinder) is evil because he disagrees with your interpretation of Scripture? Please advise.

[John317]

When we know that someone is teaching things from Satan, and we continue to look into those ideas and dialog about them, we remove ourselves from God's protection. That is presumption, the same as Eve did when she went to the tree. Once there, she could no longer count on the protection of God's angels.

Ever heard of Moses Hull? That is what happened to him. He knew that certain people were teaching doctrines of devils, but he kept meeting them, and he ended up teaching the same doctrines. He moved from debating against the immortality of the soul to defending and building up spiritualism.

Interesting story on Moses Hull, in wikipedia--

Quote:

Born in Waldo, Ohio, Hull was a member of the United Brethren Church in his teens. He joined the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1857, and became a prominent minister and debater for that denomination. In September 1863, Hull preached his last sermon as an Adventist minister.

Around this time, he turned most of energies towards the promotion of

Spiritualism, specifically Christian Spiritualism, which saw spirit communication as the culmination of Christianity. He gained prominence in the movement for a series of debates with ministers, the outcome of which was evident in that the spiritualists rather than the ministers had the transcripts published.

Hull became identified largely with Victoria Woodhull and the womens' rights wing of the movement, which launched the Equal Rights Party campaign in 1872. Later, he became a national leader of the Greenback-Labor Party and various attempts to secure more rights for the farmers, the workers and women.

Soon after, he divorced his wife, Elvira, and married fellow spiritualist Mattie Brown Sawyer. In 1903, he founded the Morris Pratt Institute in Whitewater, Wisconsin. He ran for Congress in 1906 on the ticket of the Socialist Party, and died in January 1907.

What this article doesn't mention is that Hull started meeting these spiritualists in private when he knew they were teaching error, and after SDAs had warned him not to meet with the spiritualists. It was soon after that when he threw his energies behind the doctrines he had once opposed.

[Musicman1228]

Thanks John317, that answered part of my question. Here is a follow on question: how do we KNOW when someone is teaching things of Satan? After all the Pharisees thought Jesus was teaching the things of Satan-they accused Him of casting out demons using the power of Satan. Is there a standard against which we can measure what someone is teaching to KNOW FOR SURE if what they are teaching comes from God or from Satan? Just because someone says that another person is teaching error does not necessarily make it so; it can degenerate quickly into a "his word against yours" situation.

I completely agree with you that we must be very careful to not learn or teach anything that is of Satan, because Satan only teaches lies. How then do we know what is True?

[Richard Holbrook]

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

[Richard Holbrook]

And the testimony includes Paul.

[Richard Holbrook]

And Ellen White

[John317]

John317,

Am I understanding this correctly that you think someone (in this case wayfinder) is evil because he disagrees with your interpretation of Scripture? Please advise.

If I come on Club Adventist and tell you that Jesus Christ is a liar or that He never existed or that He lies buried and never rose from the dead (as many believe), would you be right to say I am teaching false doctrines?

Would I be right to tell you that you are merely saying this because I disagree with your interpretation (i.e., mere opinion) of Scripture?

What are the next steps after rejecting the letters of Paul, and the books of Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, Jude, Acts, Luke, etc.? It is first rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, then the Apostle Paul, then entire Gospels, possibly the Old Testament, and then Jesus Christ Himself.

Satan gets people accustomed to evil by having them sleep near it for a long time so they see it as "normal." That's also how Satan attacks faith. He gets seemingly "good people" to attack faith. He just wants the idea suggested. There's amazing power in mere suggestion.

The Holy Spirit inspired these words for our spiritual benefit:

Quote:

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Gal. 6: 1-9

What are we to do when people come to us and tell us that the writer of the above words is a liar?

Who are we to believe is behind the claim-- God or Satan?

[John317]

Here is a follow on question: how do we KNOW when someone is teaching things of Satan? After all the Pharisees thought Jesus was teaching the things of Satan-they accused Him of casting out demons using the power of Satan. Is there a standard against which we can measure what someone is teaching to KNOW FOR SURE if what they are teaching comes from God or from Satan? Just because someone says that another person is teaching error does not necessarily make it so; it can degenerate quickly into a "his word against yours" situation.

I completely agree with you that we must be very careful to not learn or teach anything that is of Satan, because Satan only teaches lies. How then do we know what is True?

Satan also teaches truth. He doesn't only teach lies as you say.

In fact, Satan came to Jesus with some truth. The Devil misquoted Scripture so that it had the appearance of truth.

And how did Jesus answer? Always with a "Thus said the Lord." Notice that Jesus did not dialogue with the Devil. Jesus quoted Scripture, but He didn't enter into a "discussion" with him.

What did Satan do? He tried to make it appear that the meaning of God's word is confused and contradictory, as if no one can be sure of what the word of God actually means. That is Satan's tool.

Another tool: make it appear that one believes God's word, even as one undercuts it. Kellogg did the same with regard to Ellen White. He would say he believed in her even as he said things for the purpose of destroying people's faith in her. Ellen White said this would be a technique of Satan just before the end of human probation. She said the hatred kindled against the Testimonies would be Satanic. Indeed it is. And it will doubtless become far more intense.

[LifeHiscost]

What is this character perfectly reproduced? Is it the best vegetarian?

But seriously, when one confesses their sin, Jesus promises, as the faithful One, to cleanse from all sin.

Then it seems to me when we all in one accord, as believers, confess our sins, we all will have that purity of character that allows Jesus to claim us as His delivered.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.1 John 1:9 NKJV

"When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place."Acts 2:2 NKJV

Perhaps there is more than one reason why Jesus hasn't come yet. However I believe the most important is this.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: John317

Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.

Legalism!!!

Those willing to accept the spotless robe of Christ's righteousness, in place of their filthy rags, will be without spot. Only those unwilling to accept that garment offered freely by Christ will be denied.

"Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

“For many are called, but few are chosen.”"

Matt 22:8-14 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

[John, if God is supporting the SDA church with His full power because we believe and practice the Truth then why are we so small in number in comparison to world wide Christianity? Our rate of growth based on whether we have the truth or not (since 1865 when our church was incorporated) would suggest to me that the message that we are taking to the world IS NOT the message that God wants us to take. As a church we claim to have the Truth and we claim to be doing the will of God but the numbers just don't support it. If we were actually doing the will of God don't you think that after over 140 years we would be in Heaven already?]

That same reasoning could have been used at the time of the flood, and probably was. Such a small group, only eight people. But nothing kept God from fulfilling his will for loyal followers

then, and, I expect, nothing will stop Him from fullfiling His will at this time of the end.

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

What it is that we as a church believe to be true right now has obviously not accomplished what we all desire with all our hearts, and that is the return of our King. The best definition of insanity that I have heard is this: doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results.

As a denomination we have not achieved the character of Jesus Christ. Isn't it time we honestly and openly reassess what it is that we are committed too? Because if what we are fully committed too IS NOT THE TRUTH then we can only expect the same results that we are now seeing within our church, which is slumber.

It is only of late, perhaps within the last decade of two, that the larger part of the body of believers in the Seventh Day Adventist church have come to realize that none had any holiness except Jesus, nor had any possibility of ever developing holiness without the supernatural power producing a new creation through the power of Jesus.

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

By Jove, Tom- I think you've GOT IT!!!

God is interested in our hearts, the work that has to be done is heart work. There is no way we can do that for ourselves.

Exactly. It is an act of creation, which alone comes from the supernatural power of Jesus by His Holy Spirit. There is only one place that I'm aware of in the Bible where we are counseled to get ready. There are numerous places where we are told to be ready, an act of creation.

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” " John 3:3 NKJV

An act of creation! And then another.

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."Matthew 5:48 NIV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Ok John, if the Holy Spirit gives us unity, then tell me which one of us is not being led by the Holy Spirit?

hmm let me think.... It will come to me in a minute...

While I may be flawed in the who and which, there is some plain words from the scripture. In the outpouring of the latter rain, this would seem to identify those who accept the Holy Spirit and those who don't.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.."Galatians 5:19-24 NKJV

Blessings!

[John317]

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.."Galatians 5:19-24 NKJV

Blessings!

Good verses, LifeHiscost. I agree that these are very good ways of telling who is being led by the Spirit and who is not. Jesus said it another way, "By their fruits shall you know them."

There is a distinct difference between the life of someone who is being led by the Spirit and someone who is not being led by God's Spirit. If people can't see a big difference between our life before coming to Christ and our life after coming to Christ, there is something wrong-- don't you agree?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Legalism!!! [/quote']

Those willing to accept the spotless robe of Christ's righteousness, in place of their filthy rags, will be without spot.

The quote does say that....It says, "Their [not His robes] robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin....