miz3 Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 I feel like I'm dealing with children. How many times do I have to repeat myself so that you get it? As Twilight states you offer no Scripture just tantrums. If your gospel is correct then there will be EXPLICIT STATEMENTS FROM THE BIBLE SAYING WHAT YOU SAY! However, you have NOT GIVEN US EVEN ONE EXPLICIT STATEMENT THAT STATES WHAT YOU SAY! Quote
Members phkrause Posted July 11, 2011 Members Posted July 11, 2011 GP On this issue I have to agree with sky and miz3. I also believe that John, if I'm not mistaken, agrees with Sonny on this. So I really need to look into this more carefully, but at this point I agree the way I do. Lets look at the Day of Atonement! Again if I'm not mistaken, the day of Atonement is representative of Jesus being Crucified! Am I correct? So what happens on this day? The Priest takes all the sins of the people and places them on one of the goats. I would say that that seems to me is where the sins of us all are transfered onto Christ. I'm guessing this is what sky and miz3 are saying. Correct me if I'm wrong here! At least that's what I see or I'm reading. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Sonny Posted July 11, 2011 Author Posted July 11, 2011 You say that! However, I just showed you from Romans chapter five and chapter six that Paul says different than you do. Paul says it happened AT THE CROSS! You showed me nothing....You took that totally out of context, added you spin, and bingo - more nonsense. Quote
Sonny Posted July 11, 2011 Author Posted July 11, 2011 If your gospel is correct then there will be EXPLICIT STATEMENTS FROM THE BIBLE SAYING WHAT YOU SAY! Corinthians 1:30 But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who for us became wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written: The one who boasts must boast in the Lord. Notice that God placed you into Christ! When? - well, it doesn't say exactly, but it had to include sanctification. Keep in mind this isn't the believer's sanctification, but what Christ did in our humanity. Since "in Christ" you stand sanctified, this means that Christ had to assume your humanity long before the cross. His whole life was one of perfect obedience and since YOU were in Him your life was made obedient. Quote
miz3 Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 You showed me nothing....You took that totally out of context, added you spin, and bingo - more nonsense. Whatever, Sonny! Quote
miz3 Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who for us became wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written: The one who boasts must boast in the Lord. Come on Sonny! You know we are saying that there are NO EXPLICIT STATEMENTS FROM THE BIBLE SAYING THAT WE ARE IN CHRIST AT THE INCARNATION! Quote
Twilight II Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 If your gospel is correct then there will be EXPLICIT STATEMENTS FROM THE BIBLE SAYING WHAT YOU SAY! Corinthians 1:30 But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who for us became wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written: The one who boasts must boast in the Lord. Notice that God placed you into Christ! When? - well, it doesn't say exactly, but it had to include sanctification. Keep in mind this isn't the believer's sanctification, but what Christ did in our humanity. Since "in Christ" you stand sanctified, this means that Christ had to assume your humanity long before the cross. His whole life was one of perfect obedience and since YOU were in Him your life was made obedient. We are only in Christ if we accept the Cross Sonny. Paul is speaking of those that have accepted Jesus and are born again. If you are saying that this relates to everyone, then that means "all" are in Christ. Anyone agreeing with this is agreeing with the fundamental doctrine of "once saved always saved". In fact anyone agreeing with this is accepting universalism, where everyone is saved. No one is "in Christ" unless they have accepted the Spirit of Christ into their heart and are born again. That only happens when we accept the cross. You are misusing this text. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 Twilight said, "We are only in Christ if we accept the Cross Sonny." I would LOVE for someone to show me where Jesus said this. Won't happen, though. Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 We are only in Christ if we accept the Cross Sonny. This is pure, undiluted legalism. The human race was in Christ during His birth, life, death & resurrection. "By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man [mankind]. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself." [EGW] Again, we were "in Christ" during His life. Hence we stand sanctified in Him. Heb 10:10 By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all. Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny Corinthians 1:30 But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who for us became wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written: The one who boasts must boast in the Lord. You know we are saying that there are NO EXPLICIT STATEMENTS FROM THE BIBLE SAYING THAT WE ARE IN CHRIST AT THE INCARNATION! If we were in Christ during His life of obedience, then God had to put us into Christ at the incarnation. Again, Gal 4:4! Quote
miz3 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Quote: Heb 10:10 By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all. It states "sanctified" Sonny. We are talking about being Justified! Again, misuse of the text! Quote
miz3 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 If we were in Christ during His life of obedience, then God had to put us into Christ at the incarnation. Again, Gal 4:4! Galatians 4:4 does not say that! It does not say that God put us in Christ at the Incarnation! Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Quote: Heb 10:10 By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all. It states "sanctified" Sonny. We are talking about being Justified! Again, misuse of the text! No, we aren't talking about just being justified. We are talking about the whole picture. Read 1 Cor 1:30 again. In Christ we stand justified, sanctified, and redeemed (glorified). The law demands, 1] Our obedience (sanctification) 2] Our death (justice) 3] Our redemption from these bodies indwelt with iniquity (redemption/glorification). So when you just focus in on our death in Christ you are giving only 1/3 the gospel. We also were made obedience (2/3) in Christ and on the resurrection we were made back to the image of God in Christ (3/3). Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny If we were in Christ during His life of obedience, then God had to put us into Christ at the incarnation. Again, Gal 4:4! Galatians 4:4 does not say that! It does not say that God put us in Christ at the Incarnation! Gal 4:4 states that Christ, as the son of man, was made of a woman. He doesn't say anything about an incubator. Quote
miz3 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 No, we aren't talking about just being justified. We are talking about the whole picture. Read 1 Cor 1:30 again. In Christ we stand justified, sanctified, and redeemed (glorified). The law demands, 1] Our obedience (sanctification) 2] Our death (justice) 3] Our redemption from these bodies indwelt with iniquity (redemption/glorification). So when you just focus in on our death in Christ you are giving only 1/3 the gospel. We also were made obedience (2/3) in Christ and on the resurrection we were made back to the image of God in Christ (3/3). Whatever Sonny! Your thinking is unstable, illogical, and unBiblical! It is transparent that you are not stating the Scripture as it is written but are just spouting nonsense hoping something will stick. Everyone on this website has seen your dancing and your admitted pride come out in your comments. Are you not embarrassed? If not, you should be. Quote
miz3 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Gal 4:4 states that Christ, as the son of man, was made of a woman. He doesn't say anything about an incubator. I never stated that Galatians 4:4 said anything about an incubator. I just said that this text does not say that you and I or any human was put into Christ at the Incarnation. You are trying to misuse this text to say that humans were put in Christ at the Incarnation. The text does not say that! Quote
Twilight II Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Galatians 4:4 does not say that! It does not say that God put us in Christ at the Incarnation! Gal 4:4 states that Christ, as the son of man, was made of a woman. He doesn't say anything about an incubator. This texts makes no mention of mankinds sin being placed on Christ at the incarnation Sonny. You have not been able to supply one explicit text to verify your position. What has been done is that texts have been used and then it is claimed they "infer" what you are saying. There is no place in the Bible that states that our sin was placed on Christ at the Incarnation. Therefore what you are proposing is indeed unbiblical. Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 This texts makes no mention of mankinds sin being placed on Christ at the incarnation Sonny. "Born under the law" Because Christ took our humanity, indwelt with iniquity, Jesus was "made sin". Yet in our humanity He lived a perfect life of obedience while in our shoes. Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 There is no place in the Bible that states that our sin was placed on Christ at the Incarnation. I'm not making that argument. It's you that's doing that.... Jesus didn't have sins laid on Him. That's a metaphor. We've already covered this. You can't lay an action or a thought on anyone. It's ludicrous. Instead it simple means that Jesus took our curse: Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE" Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny Gal 4:4 states that Christ, as the son of man, was made of a woman. He doesn't say anything about an incubator. I never stated that Galatians 4:4 said anything about an incubator. You've said that Jesus really wasn't human as the son of God. That Mary was just an incubator. Here's what I think of that: Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Whatever Sonny! Your thinking is unstable, illogical, and unBiblical! No sir, this is a lie from hell. It is you who teaches another gospel! Any gospel that does away with the demands of God's law is lie and it comes from the father of lies. God didn't do away with the demands of His law, He did away with YOU: Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us..... You see it's not the law that died...it's our humanity indwelt with sin. We died to the law in the body of Christ. Quote
Twilight II Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II This texts makes no mention of mankinds sin being placed on Christ at the incarnation Sonny. "Born under the law" Because Christ took our humanity, indwelt with iniquity, Jesus was "made sin". Yet in our humanity He lived a perfect life of obedience while in our shoes. Born under the law, means that Christ was born under and judged by the same Law we are judged by. There is no reference to Christ having "sin in Him" or recieving our sins at the "incarnation". That is not expressed in this verse in any way shape or form. There is no "explicit" statement here Sonny. Again you are trying to "infer" an idea back into the scripture that is just not there. Mark :-) Quote
Twilight II Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II There is no place in the Bible that states that our sin was placed on Christ at the Incarnation. I'm not making that argument. It's you that's doing that.... Jesus didn't have sins laid on Him. That's a metaphor. We've already covered this. You can't lay an action or a thought on anyone. It's ludicrous. Instead it simple means that Jesus took our curse: Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE" So now Christ did not have our sins "in Him" as you have stated previously Sonny? Quote
miz3 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Your game playing Sonny. It is obvious that you are in denial of the plain facts being shown to you by Twilight and myself. You cannot win the issue from the Bible so you "game play". Quote
Sonny Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 So now Christ did not have our sins "in Him" as you have stated previously Sonny? Here's what you said: "placed on Christ". You can't place sins on a person. It's a metaphor. Deal with it. Quote
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