Football and Adventism

[Woody]

God sends warnings to his people. As in all ages - some will listen some will not.

Free will is always there to facilitate the fruit of the trees shining forth.

in Christ,

Bob

There might be another option behind door #3.

It simply doesn't matter to God.

He might just love the legalist as much of the Spirit lead sinner.

[lazarus]

If Jesus was here in person nowadays He would be at work hard but not in any of the games of today of big money and that keep people from ever having a serious thought.

From my reading of scripture he would work hard to be at those places. He was where the sinners were during his minstry. Perhaps he would have been invited to the Ravens locker room where there was cursing and champagne and lewd talk after the game. We would say why does this man eat with football players and sinners? The more things change the more they stay the same.

Read the book Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning

[lazarus]

My response was to laz....he has a great since of humor,

Thank you sir. I'm here to serve even if it means being the court jester.

[Tom Wetmore]

Like one of Brennan Manning's other books, "The Importance of Being Foolish"...

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

If Jesus was here in person nowadays He would be at work hard but not in any of the games of today of big money and that keep people from ever having a serious thought.

From my reading of scripture he would work hard to be at those places. He was where the sinners were during his minstry. Perhaps he would have been invited to the Ravens locker room where there was cursing and champagne and lewd talk after the game. We would say why does this man eat with football players and sinners? The more things change the more they stay the same.

Read the book Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning

Wow. What a distortion of the facts. Christ ate and dined with sinners, but, and this is a huge but, He never went to any of their parties to participate with their activities, but to exalt His Father and His love for sinners. IOWs, Christ went to parties to witness, not to participate in their sins. That's a huge difference.

Getting together to watch the Super Bowl is getting together to watch a violent game, not sit around and talk about God and His love for us. That said, I'm guilty of doing just that. I just won't paper over my own sins by distorting Biblical truths.

[CoAspen]

You need to re read TW's post again...he was not distorting anything as you have suggested. Me thinks maybe the distortion is comming from.........

[Gibs]

He did all those things to minister to the fallen but didn't participate in their follies!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[joeb]

You need to re read TW's post again...he was not distorting anything as you have suggested. Me thinks maybe the distortion is comming from.........

It's you that doesn't understand the issue, CoAspen.

Going to a party thrown simply for watching football, and going for no other reason than to watch the game, is not the reason Christ ever went to eat with those who were at the bottom of the social order during His day. Motive is everything, and you and lazarus are conflating both motives.

I have more friends outside the church than in it. I know a lot of druggies, drunks, hedonists, etc... as I lived that lifestyle for decades, and we're all comfortable in each other's presence. However, they know I won't participate in the partying and they also know I disapprove of the actions, not of them as people. I could show up at one of their parties and they would ask me why I was there knowing I disapprove of the party and the hedonism.

That is something completely different than showing up at a Super Bowl party to watch the game, and only watch the game. To conflate the two is intellectually dishonest.

[CoAspen]

[Guest]

joeb is right, you know...

[BobRyan]

Well said.

No drug-dealers-for-Jesus style meetings are approved of in the Bible. No recruiting one and all to come and "do drugs" so that we can all be "good friends" because after all being good friends is a good thing -- no matter the activity being condemned by a message from God.

Paul says "instead - even expose them".

Eph 5:11 - Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

in Christ,

Bob

[CoAspen]

Interesting....football is a sin, but.......twisting what others say or even totally misrepresenting their words is commendable!!!

One word WOW!!!!!!!

[phkrause]

I have to agree, have not seen anyone say that Jesus would take part in any kind of drinking, smoking, doing drugs, etc. Just that he might've been invited to a Superbowl party and might've gone. Maybe not to watch but to socialize! I believe he did this at the wedding at Cana?

[lazarus]

Quote:

Wow. What a distortion of the facts. Christ ate and dined with sinners, but, and this is a huge but, He never went to any of their parties to participate with their activities, but to exalt His Father and His love for sinners. IOWs, Christ went to parties to witness, not to participate in their sins. That's a huge difference.

Please indicate where in my post that I distorted the facts and suggested where Jesus would participate. Do you mean going is participating?. If going is participating then you are saying Jesus sinned.

[Woody]

This Football game was the The Third Most watched TV Event EVER. Kinda says something don't it? How are we going to relate with out neighbor if we don't know what happened?

Go Niners

[JoeMo]

I'm going with Laz, CoAspen, Woody, and Tom on this. Another thread talks about Jesus' human nature. It's human nature to just want to hang out with people. He did that at Cana 2,000 years ago; and He just might do so at a Super Bowl party today. I'd love to have him over to watch a sporting event or a movie on TV, play "Apples to Apples" or "Scategories", or just visit. Jesus can do anything He wants as a guest in my house. " Come over any time Jesus - You are welcome here!

[joeb]

Quote:

Wow. What a distortion of the facts. Christ ate and dined with sinners, but, and this is a huge but, He never went to any of their parties to participate with their activities, but to exalt His Father and His love for sinners. IOWs, Christ went to parties to witness, not to participate in their sins. That's a huge difference.

Please indicate where in my post that I distorted the facts and suggested where Jesus would participate. Do you mean going is participating?. If going is participating then you are saying Jesus sinned.

Hey Lazarus,

What you conflated was Christ's motive for attending the Publican's parties and the idea of attending a party just to party. It wasn't said explicitly in your post, but you were making the argument that Christ attending a Super Bowl party to witness about His Father was the equivalent of throwing a Super Bowl party just to party.

Re-read the previous posts you were responding to and then your post. I think you'll see what I mean.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

God sends warnings to his people. As in all ages - some will listen some will not.

Free will is always there to facilitate the fruit of the trees shining forth.

in Christ,

Bob

There might be another option behind door #3.

It simply doesn't matter to God.

The idea that God would give a message to one of his prophets -- specifically for us -- that "he does not care about" - is pretty new to me.

How did you get to such an idea?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I have to agree, have not seen anyone say that Jesus would take part in any kind of drinking, smoking, doing drugs, etc. Just that he might've been invited to a Superbowl party and might've gone.

So then - gladiator events for Jesus?

Recall that we are talking about something that Jesus claims is one of Satan's programs and is grouped in with boxing and other such activities.

By contrast some people here say that since Christ "attended a dinner" - that this is the same thing as Christ attending an event that he specifically condemns in messages to His own prophets.

Seems like a big stretch to me -

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

So when I look at "the details" in this quote - I don't see anything about "eating dinner" in social groups being condemned by God.

Quote:

Christ looks upon a world filled with the din of merchandise and trade, with the dishonesty and scheming of buyers and sellers. In their desire to get gain, men have lost sight of the laws of justice and equity. “It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth.” Satan has devised a multitude of ways in which to keep men from serving God. He has invented sports and games, into which men enter with such intensity that one would suppose a crown of life was to reward the winner. At the horse races and football matches, which are attended by thousands and thousands of people, lives for which Christ shed His blood are thrown away. What will become of the souls of the men and boys whose lives are thus extinguished? Will they be counted worthy of the redemption which Christ died to secure for them? {RH September 10, 1901, par. 5}

Looking upon these God-dishonoring scenes, Christ asks, “What is a man profited, if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?” He calls the attention of men to the nobler world which they have lost from view. He points them to the threshold of heaven, flushed with the glory of the infinite God. {RH September 10, 1901, par. 6}

I may have missed that part.

How does someone read that - then equate Christ eating dinner in a social group with the activities above as if it can all be swept under the rug as the same thing?

Where is that coming from?

What did I miss?

The obvious attempt by some to argue that the activities above are ones that Christ would attend "since he ate dinner" in a social group - seems like a huge leap.

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Recall that we are talking about something that Jesus claims is one of Satan's programs and is grouped in with boxing and other such activities.

Bob, can you please provide the scripture verse where this is found? I looked all through my New Testament and Strong's Concordance; and couldn't find it.

[JoeMo]

BobRyan,

How do you explain Jesus making a lot more wine for people who were already drunk and the wedding feast in Cana.

Don't tell me "it wasn't wine; it was grape juice"; I don't buy it. The euphanism "after the guests have had too much to drink" ("when men have well drunk" from the KJV) in John 2:10 means they were already loaded - look at the Greek. Why would Jesus make more wine for people who were already drunk? The answer is that Jesus liked to see people having a good time. He may not have indulged Himself; but He enjoyed (and still does enjoy) watching His younger brothers and sisters having a good time.

[joeb]

BobRyan,

How do you explain Jesus making a lot more wine for people who were already drunk and the wedding feast in Cana.

Don't tell me "it wasn't wine; it was grape juice"; I don't buy it. The euphanism "after the guests have had too much to drink" ("when men have well drunk" from the KJV) in John 2:10 means they were already loaded - look at the Greek. Why would Jesus make more wine for people who were already drunk? The answer is that Jesus liked to see people having a good time. He may not have indulged Himself; but He enjoyed (and still does enjoy) watching His younger brothers and sisters having a good time.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree.

That's cool, Joeb. At least you're not being disagreeable - I appreciate that. And yes - I do think Christ had a fallen human nature; but it was only half of His nature. The other half was an unfallen God nature.

Ok, so I'm inferring from your post that you don't think Christ made fermented wine; but He made grape juice? I just don't get that from the story especially when the Greek is "methyo"; which Strong's defines as "being drunk" How do you have "to much too drink" (NIV) of grape juice? Just for discussion sake, could it be that having an alcoholic buzz is not a sin - the sin is habitual drunkeness? Could Ellen White's interpretation about the Bible prohibitiing all consumption of alcohol is wro... Never mind - that couldn't be the case.

[phkrause]

BobRyan,

How do you explain Jesus making a lot more wine for people who were already drunk and the wedding feast in Cana.

Don't tell me "it wasn't wine; it was grape juice"; I don't buy it. The euphanism "after the guests have had too much to drink" ("when men have well drunk" from the KJV) in John 2:10 means they were already loaded - look at the Greek. Why would Jesus make more wine for people who were already drunk? The answer is that Jesus liked to see people having a good time. He may not have indulged Himself; but He enjoyed (and still does enjoy) watching His younger brothers and sisters having a good time.

I'm in agreement with joeb on this JoeMo. As far as the wine being grape juice, there's a book by Dr. Samuele B that talks about this. You can pm John316, he has a pdf of the book or can get it for you.