Football and Adventism

[Guest]

Of course they're of the devil, mine rings all the time!!

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

For your information, about what I bolded, I don't. I did have to carry a cell phone for years though. My job required I stay in contact at all times, and carry an extensive list of easily accessible contacts. No longer in that line of work, so I no longer carry such an intrusive device.

Seiously, Bro, kudos to you on that call. You'll have a better life for it. The silicon chip has ruined the world.

Originally Posted By: joeb

So, you posted this trying to find someone in a sin because you didn't like what they've posted, all the while ignoring the context of the quote you used, and you don't see that as sarcasm at best?

I see neither football (or any other sport) nor photography and photos as sins. So how can I "find someone in a sin" when they are not sins?

Originally Posted By: joeb

The context of the football issue is the same. It's time spent doing something that does anything but point us toward God. It(football), in fact, promotes the devil's line of thinking. Thus it is just as much of an idol as anything else that we do(cling to) that points us away from God.

That would also apply to too much work, too much family, too much any other "good" thing. Hence my comment on the lack of a middle ground.

P.S. Please expand on the following idea, and provide references:

Originally Posted By: joeb

It(football), in fact, promotes the devil's line of thinking.

You, seriously, need me to explain it to you?

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger

Joeb, just out of curiosity, do you think cell phones are of the devil?

Oy, Laz...you just HAVE to stir the pot, don't you???

Blessings,

I'm seriously interested, honest.

So, that's what you got out of my post? Seriously?

[LoneRanger]

You, seriously, need me to explain it to you?

Um...Yes!

[phkrause]

Which is exactly what her message to us was to do.

IOWs you are doing as EGW told you to do.

Good one Woody, problem is, if we didn't read her writings, we'd never know that.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

You, seriously, need me to explain it to you?

Um...Yes!

I don't think any quotes are needed to defend this as the lessons taught by professional football and those taught by Christ are so radically different.

1. The most famous and well-liked defensive players in the history of the game are the most violent. The harder the players hit someone, the more they influenced the game through intimidation, the more they are loved by football fans. How about the following linebackers as examples: Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, Dick Butkus, Jack Lambert, Junior Seau, Jack Ham, Ray Nitschke, etc....

What's the lesson taught? The more violent you are the better and the more you will be loved by the fans. Sounds exactly like what Christ taught and lived, right?

2. Do you really see Christ approving of instilling fear of injury, or even worse, injuring your opponent just to win a game, or even as a way to make a living?

Sound like a Christian principle to you?

3. Do you really see Christ promoting a "win at all costs" mentality that includes all forms of cheating, rule breaking, intimidation, and excessive violence? This is done on a regular basis in just about all levels of football.

Once again, does this sound like a principle taught by Christ?

Like I said, this is so obvious no quotes are needed. The devil is the one who advocates the use of force, violence, and intimidation. Thus football advocates the devils principles, not Christ's.

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Which is exactly what her message to us was to do.

IOWs you are doing as EGW told you to do.

Good one Woody, problem is, if we didn't read her writings, we'd never know that.

What??

Was EGW the ONLY person to advocate reading the Bible??

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this.

[LoneRanger]

Despite all of the very valid points raised in your post, that does not give evidence of football being invented by Satan.

Many things have been turned to evil use. That does not make the thing itself either evil or invented by the devil. Take sex. How many women have been sexually assaulted? How many young girls have had to live with the trauma of incest? How many lives have been ruined by unwanted pregnancies or infidelity. None of this makes sex the devil's invention.

Humanity excells at destroying good things.

[joeb]

Despite all of the very valid points raised in your post, that does not give evidence of football being invented by Satan.

Many things have been turned to evil use. That does not make the thing itself either evil or invented by the devil. Take sex. How many women have been sexually assaulted? How many young girls have had to live with the trauma of incest? How many lives have been ruined by unwanted pregnancies or infidelity. None of this makes sex the devil's invention.

Humanity excells at destroying good things.

What does that have to do with anything? You asked me how football teaches principles at odds with Christianity. I answered you. I also showed how spending time with football is detrimental to our spiritual life, because anything that leads us away from God's principles is bad for us.

This comes from someone who loved playing football. I was a gym rat/sports fiend when in high school. I lettered in football, basketball, volleyball, tennis, and baseball. I was as competitive as they come. Winning and losing and living and dying to me.

I now see what I didn't see back then. Of course back then my relationship with Christ wasn't very high on my radar. I was more interested in getting good enough in every sport I played to never lose. I did lose some, but my goal was to never lose.

[CoAspen]

Me thinks you should not project your life on to others. The assumptions you made for yourself and the reason for doing so are valid for you but may not be for others. Life's experiences are not the same for all. You thoughts and ideas would be aptly expressed if you didn't always try to include everyone into your experience.

[JoeMo]

Lone Ranger ,

all of your posts from the past few days.

Looks like the pox thing didn't work very well. It is truly amazing for me that this thread has continued this long.

I don't know if it's fair to ask, but do the EGW warnings about football also pertain to basketball? Both New Mexico Class I university teams will likely be in the NCAA Tournament; and I'd like to watch a few games without worrying ...

[LoneRanger]

Me thinks you should not project your life on to others. The assumptions you made for yourself and the reason for doing so are valid for you but may not be for others. Life's experiences are not the same for all. You thoughts and ideas would be aptly expressed if you didn't always try to include everyone into your experience.

Thanks Co Aspen

[LoneRanger]

Lone Ranger ,

all of your posts from the past few days.

Looks like the pox thing didn't work very well. It is truly amazing for me that this thread has continued this long.

I don't know if it's fair to ask, but do the EGW warnings about football also pertain to basketball? Both New Mexico Class I university teams will likely be in the NCAA Tournament; and I'd like to watch a few games without worrying ...

My friend, it's OK with me. Right now I am following our Canadian tennis player who is doing extremly well.

[Ted Oplinger]

Lone Ranger ,

all of your posts from the past few days.

Looks like the pox thing didn't work very well. It is truly amazing for me that this thread has continued this long.

I don't know if it's fair to ask, but do the EGW warnings about football also pertain to basketball? Both New Mexico Class I university teams will likely be in the NCAA Tournament; and I'd like to watch a few games without worrying ...

This thread apparently has been vaccinated against the pox.

Blessings,

[LoneRanger]

Winning and losing and living and dying to me.

This is where we differ. I played all the sports you mentioned, basketball and volleyball on regional leagues, and add Karate, Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido. If I won, I won. If I lost, I lost. I always did the best I could, and I always had fun.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

BTW - I am pretty sure the majority of the members of my church never looked up this quote or studied the subject for themselves.

I don't study Ellen White; I study the Bible.

Did you find 1Thess 5:19-22 in your Bible study?

Did you find Isaiah 30:8-14 in your Bible study?

If not - how did it get passed you? Have you not yet gotten to that part of the Bible in your Bible study?

If not - maybe we can study that on a related thread to this one already started on this section of the board.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Despite all of the very valid points raised in your post, that does not give evidence of football being invented by Satan.

Many things have been turned to evil use. That does not make the thing itself either evil or invented by the devil.

Good points.

As God would have it - we actually have a message from one of God's prophets to inform us on that point. So we need not make wild guesses.

[BobRyan]

Quote:

Christ looks upon a world filled with the din of merchandise and trade, with the dishonesty and scheming of buyers and sellers. In their desire to get gain, men have lost sight of the laws of justice and equity. “It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth.” Satan has devised a multitude of ways in which to keep men from serving God. He has invented sports and games, into which men enter with such intensity that one would suppose a crown of life was to reward the winner. At the horse races and football matches, which are attended by thousands and thousands of people, lives for which Christ shed His blood are thrown away. What will become of the souls of the men and boys whose lives are thus extinguished? Will they be counted worthy of the redemption which Christ died to secure for them? {RH September 10, 1901, par. 5}

Looking upon these God-dishonoring scenes, Christ asks, “What is a man profited, if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?” He calls the attention of men to the nobler world which they have lost from view. He points them to the threshold of heaven, flushed with the glory of the infinite God. {RH September 10, 1901, par. 6}

[quote name="BobRyan

When I read the above - I am confronted by the conviction that many SDAs have never even seen this material. Some who have seen it choose to rebel against it - but most do not know it even exists.

[/quote"]

Quite the contrary' date=' Bob. We are well aware of its existance, having had it thrust upon us as evil youngsters just wanting to have some fun.

I'm afraid this is one of those examples where EGW gets carried away with her own emotionalism.

[LoneRanger]

Did you find 1Thess 5:19-22 in your Bible study?

Did you find Isaiah 30:8-14 in your Bible study?

[LoneRanger]

BobRyan, you will find that my view on EGW differs substantially from yours.

Here are some points in the Lone Ranger Prophecy Theory:

I DO NOT think she was a false prophet.

I DO NOT think that every word she wrote or spoke is straight from the Throne of God.

I DO BELIEVE there is some middle ground there.

I DO BELIEVE EGW has been badly (and often intentionally) misused, abused and maligned.

But this should all be another thread.

[Ted Oplinger]

BobRyan, you will find that my view on EGW differs substantially from yours.

Here are some points in the Lone Ranger Prophecy Theory:

I DO NOT think she was a false prophet.

I DO NOT think that every word she wrote or spoke is straight from the Throne of God.

I DO BELIEVE there is some middle ground there.

I DO BELIEVE EGW has been badly (and often intentionally) misused, abused and maligned.

But this should all be another thread.

Ummm.....Lone Ranger....I think as time goes on and you fish around past threads - you will find those thoughts to be much more common than you might think.

They also happen to be my thoughts on the matter.

Blessings!

[LoneRanger]

No doubt.

Please do not think that I was ascribing other views to the entire forum or anyone else. I was only addressing BobRyan, and, in all fairness, making a judgement call on the FEW posts of his (or hers ) that I had read.

I well recognize the massive spectrum of views on this subject.

[BobRyan]

BobRyan, you will find that my view on EGW differs substantially from yours.

Here are some points in the Lone Ranger Prophecy Theory:

I DO NOT think she was a false prophet.

I DO NOT think that every word she wrote or spoke is straight from the Throne of God.

The question that your posts leaves to be resolved - is whether you have accepted the Bible teaching on the subject of prophecy - and how it works.

As has been noted several times in the past - it is a red herring to argue that everything Ellen White said at breakfast is not directly from God - since no one on this board has ever suggested such a thing.

Back to the topic..

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Did you find 1Thess 5:19-22 in your Bible study?

Did you find Isaiah 30:8-14 in your Bible study?

[BobRyan]

No doubt there is a discussion of EGW somewhere on this forum. Bring it up and I'll be happy to add my 2-bits worth. No need to re-invent the wheel here.

Here is a link to a very recent thread that serves the purpose of discussing the Bible teaching on what inspiration is when it comes to a prophet - and how it works.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post609741