Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary # 24

[Samie]

45 minutes ago, jackson said:

Samie,you have been saying that all are born forgiven and saved and in Christ. But scripture has shown that these  blessing are possible only after one willingly comes to the foot of the cross in repentance,

Where did you get the power to come when you are not yet PLUGGED IN to the ONLY Source of Power, jackson?

[8thdaypriest]

19 hours ago, Samie said:

20 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (NKJ)

To be "in Christ Jesus" MEANS to be set apart ("sanctified") from "the world" or in the case of Israel, from "the nations".   It means to belong to those who "call on the name of Jesus" as LORD. 

 Yes, we all belong to the Family of God.  But many will be EXPELLED from it for not overcoming evil with good.  Their names will Christ Himself blot out from the Book of Life.

 

Do you actually hear yourself Samie?

You say the entire world and every human who was ever born into the world, was born already "in Christ".

Then I point out, that God is calling us to be SEPARATE FROM "the world" and "the nations". 

He wants to "sanctify" us - which MEANS "to separate from" or "to make separate from".

Why would we need to SEPARATE FROM "the world" and "the nations" IF we are already "saved" ?  There would be no need to separate. 

 

[Samie]

4 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Do you actually hear yourself Samie?

You say the entire world and every human who was ever born into the world, was born already "in Christ".

Then I point out, that God is calling us to be SEPARATE FROM "the world" and "the nations". 

He wants to "sanctify" us - which MEANS "to separate from" or "to make separate from".

Why would we need to SEPARATE FROM "the world" and "the nations" IF we are already "saved" ?  There would be no need to separate. 

Are you aware of the uses of the word "world", Rachel?

Why did God so loved the "world" yet we are admonished to love not the "world"?

[8thdaypriest]

God commanded circumcision, as the SIGN of separation from "the nations". 

It was the SIGN that one belonged to Israel - to the "people of Yahweh".

Of Israel God said:

  I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.
 (Lev 20:24 NIV)

He called Israel "My people" (as opposed to "those nations") . 

In the NT, "circumcision of the heart" is the SIGN that one belongs to Christ Jesus.

Jesus said, "My sheep hear Me, and they follow Me"  (John 10:27).

If a "sheep" does NOT "hear" Christ (meaning understand and believe), and "follow" Christ - that "sheep" is obviously NOT one of Christ's flock.

And THAT is what Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews!

John 10:26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you." (NKJ)

Jesus "sheep" ARE those who believe!!

[8thdaypriest]

31 minutes ago, Samie said:

Are you aware of the uses of the word "world", Rachel?

Why did God so loved the "world" yet we are admonished to love not the "world"?

What God LOVES, He cannot in every case SAVE. 

Loving and saving are two different things. 

Parents of rebellious offspring know this. 

We are admonished to love - as God loves, which is not the same as loving those things which the world loves. 

"Love not the world" MEANS simply - do not love AS the world loves.

"God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, might not perish, but have everlasting life."  (John 3:16)

You Samie, want it to say: God so loved the world, that He saved the whole world and gave them everlasting life.  But those who refuse to believe in His Son will be rendered unsaved and eternal life will be taken away from them, and they will perish.

[Samie]

2 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

You Samie, want it to say: God so loved the world, that He saved the whole world and gave them everlasting life.  But those who refuse to believe in His Son will be rendered unsaved and eternal life will be taken away from them, and they will perish.

God so loved the world, that He saved the whole world by fashioning them into the Body of His Son so they can overcome evil with good.  But those who refuse to overcome evil with good will be detached from His Body by blotting their names from the book of life.

It seems to me that you want the world to overcome evil with good even if they are NOT PLUGGED IN to Christ.

[Samie]

34 minutes ago, jackson said:

OK, I'll answer once again your diversionary question. You get the power through the grace that accompanies the measure of faith you are born with.

How do you get the power when you are NOT attached to the ONLY Source of POWER, jackson?

[Samie]

39 minutes ago, jackson said:

You get the power through the grace that accompanies the measure of faith you are born with.

How can you be born with the measure of faith which is fruit of the Spirit when you are APART from Christ Who said you cannot bear fruit when APART from Him?

[Samie]

45 minutes ago, jackson said:

Can you now see that we are not born as sons and daughters of God and must be adopted by faith that leads to acceptance as Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Sorry, jackson.  Instead of adopted by faith, Scripture says "predestinated to adoption".  I assume you very well know what it is to be predestinated.

Ephesians 1:5   Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

You see, jackson, to be predestinated as children resulted from the good pleasure of God's will, and is not the result of your believing in Him as you erroneously teach.

[Samie]

Why is it that people are born ALREADY forgiven?

Simply because the act of FORGIVING is God's work FOR man, accomplished when the blood of the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world, was shed.  All grace.  Not an iota of human participation. This was typified in the old covenant when at Yom Kippur people were cleansed from all their sins.  This was revealed when at the cross the Lamb of God shed His blood that washed us clean from all our sins.

Leviticus 16:30   For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

KJV Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Colossians 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins

Colossians 2:13   And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses

Anyone unforgiven is separate from God because sin separates man from God (Isa 59:2).  Separate from the ONLY Source of POWER, man has no power to do the act of repenting which jackson erroneously teach as requisite for forgiveness.

On 05/05/2017 at 8:38 AM, jackson said:

5.      No one is born forgiven or saved, for repentance must precede forgiveness and forgiveness  must precede salvation

[8thdaypriest]

5 hours ago, Samie said:

Are you aware of the uses of the word "world", Rachel?

Why did God so loved the "world" yet we are admonished to love not the "world"?

Are you aware of the meaning of the word "save" Samie?

If every person was "saved" [past tense] - from what were they "saved" ?

 

[Samie]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

Are you aware of the meaning of the word "save" Samie?

If every person was "saved" [past tense] - from what were they "saved" ?

 

To be in Christ is to be NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be saved, hence, to be born NOT lost is to be born saved.

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Samie said:

How do you get the power when you are NOT attached to the ONLY Source of POWER, jackson?

Because you have a battery pack, (a measure of faith) does NOT MEAN you are "attached" or "plugged in" to the grid.

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, Samie said:

To be in Christ is to be NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be saved, hence, to be born NOT lost is to be born saved.

So they were "saved" from being "lost".

OK - I'll bite. 

DEFINE "lost".

[Samie]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

OK - I'll bite. 

DEFINE "lost".

To be NOT in Christ.

[8thdaypriest]

2 minutes ago, Samie said:

To be NOT in Christ.

Your words just go round and round and round, without actually saying anything.  It's like saying that light is not dark, and dark is not light, without actually defining either word. 

[Samie]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Your words just go round and round and round, without actually saying anything.  It's like saying that light is not dark, and dark is not light, without actually defining either word. 

Is it wrong to say that To be NOT in Christ is to be lost?

[Samie]

9 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Because you have a battery pack, (a measure of faith) does NOT MEAN you are "attached" or "plugged in" to the grid.

A battery pack is source of power. The electric grid is another source of power.  You are referring to two different sources of power when the issue is the ONLY Source of POWER.

[8thdaypriest]

Debating this did really help me with a study on Universalism.  I practically rewrote the whole thing.  Thanks

[Samie]

2 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Debating this did really help me with a study on Universalism.  I practically rewrote the whole thing.  Thanks

You are welcome, Rachel.

[8thdaypriest]

If all individuals are regarded as "those who are Christ's" from the moment of our birth, (no FREE WILL involved on our part to get "in")

and they will therefore be raised to eternal life, unless their names are blotted from the Book (here the FREE WILL of informed adults does come in),

then all of those who lived in ignorance will be given eternal life (no choice or exercise of FREE WILL necessary on their part),

and all of those who died as children, or as mentally disabled, will be given eternal life - (no choice or exercise of FREE WILL necessary on their part).

THIS is my issue with your view Samie. 

I just don't believe the LORD will transport into His eternal kingdom, people who do not CHOOSE to be there.  That would require manipulation of human minds - to ensure their continued harmony with the Kingdom.  God doesn't do THAT!! 

This is the whole reason we don't baptize babies.  Because they cannot believe and cannot repent. 

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Your view turns that verse on its head.  You are saying we are baptized because we already HAVE the Holy Spirit (the power source) and we repent because we have ALREADY BEEN forgiven. 

In my view, those who could not CHOOSE during their lives in this age, MUST BE RESURRECTED so they can HEAR, UNDERSTAND, and CHOOSE.

My view is at odds with BOTH you and Adventism and most of the Christian world.   I just believe EVERYONE must choose.  EVERYONE. 

From what I understand, "The United Church of God - International" holds a view similar to my own.  They do not understand the significance of "the 8th day" and the connection with the priesthood of the "firstborn", but they do believe those who died in ignorance will be raised at the 8th millennium - to continue their physical lives, and then make their CHOICE.  This denomination is very patriarchal, so I doubt they would appreciate any teaching from a woman.  lol

Folks can read, or listen to, my book on this subject at http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/

[8thdaypriest]

35 minutes ago, Samie said:

A battery pack is source of power. The electric grid is another source of power.  You are referring to two different sources of power when the issue is the ONLY Source of POWER.

Nope!  God has given to every man a measure of faith.  God gave the "battery pack" to power our "flashlight" (the Bible), so we can find our way to turn on "the grid" (Christ Jesus). 

God is the power plant.  The "power" flows from HIM, through Christ, to us. 

[Samie]

5 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

If all individuals are regarded as "those who are Christ's" from the moment of our birth, (no FREE WILL involved on our part to get "in")

and they will therefore be raised to eternal life, unless their names are blotted from the Book (here the FREE WILL of informed adults does come in),

then all of those who lived in ignorance will be given eternal life (no choice or exercise of FREE WILL necessary on their part),

and all of those who died as children, or as mentally disabled, will be given eternal life - (no choice or exercise of FREE WILL necessary on their part).

THIS is my issue with your view Samie. 

It's ONLY God through Christ Who judges who to blot and who not to blot.  I am fully confident we all are in the good hands of the IMPARTIAL, Righteous Judge of all the earth.

[Samie]

5 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Nope!  God has given to every man a measure of faith.  God gave the "battery pack" to power our "flashlight" (the Bible), so we can find our way to turn on "the grid" (Christ Jesus). 

God is the power plant.  The "power" flows from HIM, through Christ, to us. 

Jesus is ALWAYS turned on for us. No one can turn Him off.

[Samie]

13 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Your view turns that verse on its head. 

Peter said the above statement PRIOR to a vision God gave him in Acts 10 where God Himself taught Peter that his view that the unbaptized is NOT FORGIVEN (unclean in God's sight) is wrong. 

KJV Acts 10:28   And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

And he later wrote that people are born again NOT through baptism but through the resurrection of Jesus:

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

Peter learned his lesson.  Many have yet to learn theirs.